Steph and Robert talk to leading economist and investor Mohamed El-Erian about how growth is the only solution to our national debt burden, how he would re-write the fiscal rules to allow for much more public investment and why central banks must increase their inflation targets from 2% to 3% Sign up to our newsletter to get more stories from the world of business and finance. Email: restismoney@gmail.com X: @TheRestIsMoney Instagram: @TheRestIsMoney TikTok: @RestIsMoney goalhangerpodcasts.com Producer: Ross Buchanan Head of Content: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices