In this episode, Amir sits down with Suzanne McGovern, Chief People Officer and HR veteran, to explore how the employee-employer relationship has fundamentally changed. From the aftermath of COVID-19 and rise of remote work to shifting generational expectations and the role of company culture, they dig into what leaders need to do to build trust, adapt to new work models, and attract talent in a post-pandemic world.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

The contract has changed: COVID-19 was a major inflection point, permanently altering what employees expect from work—especially around flexibility, autonomy, and trust.

Hybrid isn’t a mandate—it’s a design challenge: Simply calling people back to the office misses the point. Organizations must re-architect work to make in-person time intentional and meaningful.

Purpose beats perks: Employees don’t stay for snacks and ping-pong tables—they want to be part of a mission, do meaningful work, and grow as individuals.

Culture should attract and repel: Your values should be so real they naturally draw in the right people—and push away those who don’t align.

💬 Standout Quote:

“When we transact, everyone loses. It's got to be more than a transaction. It has to be based on purpose or personal connection.”

⏱ Timestamped Highlights:

00:24 – Intro: What this episode is about—employee-employer contract and trust post-COVID.

01:00 – Suzanne’s Background: From IBM to Splunk to Ipsy—big to small org experience.

02:10 – Defining the Contract: Goes beyond job descriptions—it's about trust and shared expectations.

03:50 – COVID Changed Everything: Flexible work, layoffs, and remote expectations shifted the power balance.

06:45 – Work Is Not About Snacks: Why people really come to work—and why “lazy remote workers” is a flawed narrative.

09:00 – The Hybrid Conundrum: People want both flexibility and deep collaboration—how do we enable both?

13:10 – The Trust Breakdown: Why both employers and employees are struggling to trust each other.

16:25 – Reframing Return-to-Office: How empathy and mental health could have made RTO more productive.

21:00 – Market Shift and Control: How layoffs and power shifts are reshaping employer behavior.

24:00 – Gig Economy Impact: Employees now have alternatives—and they know it.

27:30 – Making Work Appealing: Meeting different generations where they are with values, not just compensation.

30:15 – Culture That Attracts and Repels: Values should be crystal clear—what you stand for and what you don’t.