The Talent Tango

What happens when you treat employee experience like a product? Neervi Shah Patel, Chief People Officer at Faire, joins the show to share how her team brings the same level of operational rigor and customer obsession to PeopleOps that product teams bring to user experience. From leveraging data to embracing transparency, Neervi breaks down how to build scalable, fair, and high-performing orgs—without losing the human side. If you lead people, run HR, or are scaling a team at a startup, this episode will shift how you think about the function. Key Takeaways – Think like a product team: Employee experience should be intentionally designed, tested, and iterated—just like a customer journey. – Rigor means relevance: Metrics, clarity, and outcomes matter—but rigor doesn’t mean making HR transactional. – Fairness is a performance strategy: When employees believe the system is fair, trust increases—and so does performance. – Don’t ignore the anecdotes: When stories and data diverge, it’s a signal to dig deeper. Listening matters as much as measurement. – AI is now a must-have filter: Every HR tool Faire evaluates now gets assessed through the lens of its AI capabilities. Timestamped Highlights [02:26] Applying product discipline to PeopleOps [05:43] How Neervi’s background in sales and consulting shapes her HR leadership [08:24] Why fairness and trust should drive policy—not just process [12:00] How manager messaging can build (or break) organizational trust [15:03] What data they collect—and how they make it useful across the employee lifecycle [21:11] Why every new HR tech tool must be AI-native moving forward Quote of the Episode "If it saves us three steps but makes it ten steps harder for the employee, that’s not a win. We’d never do that for a customer—why would we do it to our people?" — Neervi Shah Patel Resources Mentioned – Faire: faire.com – Neervi on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/neervishahpatel – Referenced (paraphrased) Jeff Bezos quote: “If data and anecdotes diverge, trust the anecdote—you may be measuring the wrong thing.” Pro Tips for Operators – Build in feedback loops at every employee lifecycle stage—onboarding, engagement, exits. – Require manager alignment and ownership in performance processes to avoid undermining fairness. – Don’t sacrifice employee experience for operational ease—just like you wouldn’t for customers. Call to Action If you’re ready to run PeopleOps like a strategic business function, not a support team, share this episode with a fellow leader. And make sure you’re subscribed to The Talent Tango for more conversations like this one.

What does it really look like to run the entire People function solo — and still operate at a strategic level? In this episode, Anisha Thomas, Head of People at Inscribe, shares what it takes to be a team of one at a fast-paced AI startup. From managing headcount planning without over-hiring to leaning on tech to avoid burnout, she offers a refreshingly honest look at how she keeps her footing in the chaos. If you’ve ever worn “all the hats,” this one’s for you. 🔑 Key Takeaways Leadership Without a Team Anisha reflects on how returning to IC work after leading a team has sharpened her understanding of what real leadership requires — trust, delegation, and a deep knowing of where she adds the most value. Strategy Needs Time Balancing operational fire drills with strategic priorities is hard — but having a clear North Star for the day, week, and quarter helps her stay grounded and protect time for long-term thinking. AI as a Teammate, Not a Threat From tools like Ashby and Lattice to constant use of ChatGPT, she’s finding ways to automate the admin and protect energy for what matters most — culture, trust, and conversations. Reimagining Headcount Planning Instead of annual hiring plans, Inscribe ties new roles to real business triggers. It’s a shift from “gut feel” to metrics and milestones — and it could help stabilize People orgs for the long haul. ⏱️ Timestamped Highlights 00:55 – “I’m a team of one.” Anisha shares how her role has evolved from builder to leader… and back again. 02:19 – How she splits her time between candidate calls, performance reviews, and strategy. 04:14 – The cost of context switching, and how she protects her time with clear priorities. 06:04 – Why she was nervous to hire her first team… and what she learned about delegating. 09:48 – Connecting the dots across the org — even without a big team. 12:20 – The People tech stack she swears by — and how AI makes her life easier. 14:25 – The future of People teams: small, efficient, and AI-enabled. 16:57 – How tying headcount to revenue milestones changes the talent game. 18:50 – Why being in the weeds will always be a superpower — even for leaders. 🔁 Quote Worth Sharing “I don’t want there to be a disconnect between what we’re building and how we work. So being AI-enabled isn’t optional — it’s table stakes.” — Anisha Thomas 📎 Resources Mentioned Ashby (for recruiting automation) Lattice (performance + engagement)

In this episode of The Talent Tango, Amir sits down with Ashley Utz, Chief People Officer at Happy Money, to explore the complex task of rebuilding trust within organizations—especially during periods of change like layoffs, restructuring, or leadership transitions. Ashley offers a nuanced perspective on the differences between personal and organizational trust, shares frameworks like Covey’s “Speed of Trust” model, and emphasizes the critical role of middle managers in trust-building. With timely insights and practical strategies, this conversation is a must-listen for HR and talent leaders navigating today’s uncertain workplace climate.   🧠 Key Takeaways Trust Starts at a Deficit Assume employees are coming in with skepticism due to societal and institutional breakdowns in trust. This sets the foundation for how HR and leadership must engage. Define the Type of Trust You’re Building Organizational trust differs from personal trust. It’s less about emotional intimacy and more about clarity, consistency, and respect. Two-Part Trust Model: Character + Competence Drawing from Stephen Covey’s "Speed of Trust" model—great leaders are both good people and good at their jobs. You need integrity and execution in equal measure. Layoffs Are Trust Landmines When handling layoffs or restructures, transparency around the "why", dignity in treatment, and careful follow-through on promises are essential. People Trust People—Not Institutions Managers are frontline trust builders. Equip them to communicate with care and personalize messages to their teams. ⏱️ Timestamped Highlights 00:00 – Intro to Ashley Utz and Happy Money’s mission in financial wellness 01:53 – Trust in institutions is at historic lows; how that affects workplace dynamics 03:30 – The paradox of radical transparency and why "oversharing" can backfire 04:37 – Personal vs. organizational trust: clarity, consistency, and fairness vs. emotional loyalty 08:28 – Covey’s Trust Model: character + competence 11:10 – Trust is built top-down, bottom-up, and especially in the middle 14:09 – How to communicate during layoffs and restructuring with empathy and clarity 17:11 – Managers’ role in contextualizing top-down messaging and building daily trust 20:11 – Final takeaway: "Trust is quiet... earned in the little things, lost in the gaps, and rebuilt through action" 💬 Quote  “Trust is quiet. It’s earned in the little things, lost in the gaps, and rebuilt through action. It’s not about being perfect—but about being worthy.”

In this episode, Amir sits down with Greg Russell, VP of Talent Acquisition at CoverGenius, to unpack why talent acquisition should be treated like project management. They explore how applying frameworks like the project management triangle (scope, cost, time) can elevate recruiting conversations, drive better alignment, and ultimately improve hiring outcomes. From setting expectations with hiring managers to negotiating trade-offs, this episode reframes TA as a strategic, structured discipline—not just a reactive function. 🧠 Key Takeaways: TA is not just sales—it’s strategic project management. Hiring is a major business investment and deserves the same rigor. The PM Triangle applies directly to hiring. You can’t optimize for speed, cost, and quality all at once—there must be trade-offs. TA professionals must own their expertise. Recruiters should feel empowered to push back, educate hiring managers, and protect process integrity. Confidence and mindset matter. Viewing recruiting as a craft fosters pride, learning, and better long-term performance. Borrowing language from other teams (like engineering) helps. Using PM frameworks and terminology earns credibility and promotes alignment. ⏱ Timestamped Highlights: 00:59 – Introducing the idea: TA as project management. 02:41 – Why each hire is a high-cost, long-term business investment. 04:26 – The challenge of TA being undervalued or misunderstood. 08:09 – Project management triangle: budget, scope, time trade-offs in hiring. 11:39 – Lack of standardized PM methodology in TA—and why that should change. 12:34 – Teaching hiring managers the trade-offs and setting expectations. 14:38 – Using familiar frameworks (like Scrum) to align with engineers. 16:22 – Why order-taking kills TA’s credibility—and how to avoid it. 19:22 – TA is the expert in hiring—own that expertise in every room. 25:44 – The "order at a restaurant" fallacy in hiring expectations. 28:00 – Building recruiter confidence and pride in their craft. 30:47 – Treating recruiting as a craft versus a job—why it matters for growth. 💬 Quote: “You are the expert in that room when it comes to hiring. Even if you’re sitting with the CTO—own your craft, set the expectations, and drive the project.”

In this episode, Amir sits down with Suzanne McGovern, Chief People Officer and HR veteran, to explore how the employee-employer relationship has fundamentally changed. From the aftermath of COVID-19 and rise of remote work to shifting generational expectations and the role of company culture, they dig into what leaders need to do to build trust, adapt to new work models, and attract talent in a post-pandemic world. 🔑 Key Takeaways: The contract has changed: COVID-19 was a major inflection point, permanently altering what employees expect from work—especially around flexibility, autonomy, and trust. Hybrid isn’t a mandate—it’s a design challenge: Simply calling people back to the office misses the point. Organizations must re-architect work to make in-person time intentional and meaningful. Purpose beats perks: Employees don’t stay for snacks and ping-pong tables—they want to be part of a mission, do meaningful work, and grow as individuals. Culture should attract and repel: Your values should be so real they naturally draw in the right people—and push away those who don’t align. 💬 Standout Quote: “When we transact, everyone loses. It's got to be more than a transaction. It has to be based on purpose or personal connection.” ⏱ Timestamped Highlights: 00:24 – Intro: What this episode is about—employee-employer contract and trust post-COVID. 01:00 – Suzanne’s Background: From IBM to Splunk to Ipsy—big to small org experience. 02:10 – Defining the Contract: Goes beyond job descriptions—it's about trust and shared expectations. 03:50 – COVID Changed Everything: Flexible work, layoffs, and remote expectations shifted the power balance. 06:45 – Work Is Not About Snacks: Why people really come to work—and why “lazy remote workers” is a flawed narrative. 09:00 – The Hybrid Conundrum: People want both flexibility and deep collaboration—how do we enable both? 13:10 – The Trust Breakdown: Why both employers and employees are struggling to trust each other. 16:25 – Reframing Return-to-Office: How empathy and mental health could have made RTO more productive. 21:00 – Market Shift and Control: How layoffs and power shifts are reshaping employer behavior. 24:00 – Gig Economy Impact: Employees now have alternatives—and they know it. 27:30 – Making Work Appealing: Meeting different generations where they are with values, not just compensation. 30:15 – Culture That Attracts and Repels: Values should be crystal clear—what you stand for and what you don’t.

In this episode, Brittany Blumenthal, VP of People at HiddenLayer, shares how early-stage startups can intentionally define and evolve their culture. She breaks down the challenges of working with strong founder imprints, the importance of documenting culture as a living contract, and how to build feedback loops that go both ways. If you're scaling a team and want culture to grow with it, this episode offers tactical insight and hard-earned lessons. 🔑 Key Takeaways: Culture Starts With the Founder’s Imprint Founders often shape company culture unintentionally. People leaders must help them surface, reflect, and intentionally evolve that foundation. Write It Down—Make Culture a Living Document You can't scale what’s vague. Culture should be defined, documented, and expected to evolve as the company grows. Bi-Directional Feedback Is a Culture Keystone True culture thrives when feedback flows in both directions and employees feel safe to share how the company is doing—not just how they are doing. You Have to Slow the Founder Down In early-stage companies, a big part of the People leader’s job is convincing founders to pause and co-invest in culture before it becomes reactive. ⏱️ Timestamped Highlights: 00:23 – Intro: Defining culture at startups and reshaping founder imprint 01:38 – Founders value culture—but need help operationalizing it 03:38 – “How we want you to show up”: Culture as a two-way contract 07:45 – When feedback loops are broken, culture fails 09:50 – Making culture bi-directional and intentionally embedded 12:20 – What to do when culture is fragmented or inconsistent 14:35 – Getting founders to pause and participate in defining culture 16:25 – Closing thoughts: Culture is how we succeed at scale 💬 Quote: “The best way to retain talent is to be very clear and very true about what it's like to work here—and write it down.”  

In this episode of The Talent Tango, Amir sits down with Caitlin Kamm, Director of People Growth at Envoy, to unpack a real-world employer branding initiative tailored specifically for engineering talent. Caitlin walks through how her team developed a laser-focused EVP to support a return-to-office mandate—balancing culture, candidate persona, and business needs. From strategy to stakeholder alignment to creative execution, it’s a playbook for anyone in talent roles grappling with attracting high-caliber candidates in a hybrid world. 💡 Key Takeaways: Start with specificity: Crafting an employer brand around a targeted persona—like engineers—yields clearer messaging and stronger impact. Authenticity over perks: The EVP focused on purpose, innovation, and collaboration, deliberately leaving out compensation and benefits. Match the medium to the message: They pivoted from real employee footage to an animated video to better reflect Envoy’s brand and voice. Metrics with context: A 5% increase in offer acceptance was a win—but measuring deeper attribution requires embedding branding assets across the candidate journey. ⏱️ Timestamped Highlights: 00:00 – Intro to Caitlin and episode scope 01:01 – Defining employer branding at Envoy 03:02 – Aligning brand with return-to-office policy 07:24 – Why engineers were the initial focus 10:07 – Communicating the 'why' of coming to the office 12:55 – Making intentional branding choices 14:24 – Measuring success: acceptance rates and Q1 plans 17:01 – Applying a product mindset to employer branding 19:56 – Lessons learned and the power of anchoring to the ideal candidate persona 💬 Quote to Highlight: "You have to treat the soft stuff like the hard stuff—when you bring rigor to planning and persona targeting, the strategy actually sticks." — Caitlin Kamm

In this episode of The Talent Tango, Amir Bormand is joined by Heather Cassar to unpack the nuances of giving and receiving feedback in the workplace. From real-time feedback practices to performance reviews, Heather shares practical tips on how to build trust, motivate teams, and make feedback a natural part of company culture—without making it awkward. Whether you're in HR, a people leader, or a manager navigating hybrid teams, this episode offers a human-centered approach to feedback that boosts both trust and performance. 🔑 Key Takeaways: Feedback must be real-time, detailed, and actionable. Don’t wait until a performance review to deliver insights—timing builds trust. Trust is the foundation. One-on-ones that include personal check-ins foster stronger feedback relationships. Avoid the “big reveal.” Holding feedback until review season erodes trust and reduces opportunities for course correction. Feedback culture isn’t top-down only. Tailor feedback strategies by department and encourage peer-to-peer feedback to scale trust. It’s only as weird as you make it. Normalize feedback by using everyday tools like Slack and keeping the tone conversational. 🕒 Timestamped Highlights: 00:23 – Introduction to Heather Cassar and the topic of feedback 01:17 – Heather’s 3 principles of effective feedback: timing, balance, and actionability 05:10 – How personal connection in 1:1s builds trust for better feedback reception 06:59 – Checking perspective first: “Did you think the presentation went well?” 09:25 – “It’s only as weird as you make it”—changing the perception of feedback 12:32 – Aligning feedback with individual motivators for better outcomes 14:30 – The problem with waiting for performance reviews to deliver feedback 19:07 – Imprinting feedback into company culture across different functions 21:46 – Feedback tied to business outcomes and inter-team trust 24:22 – The “carrot vs stick” approach to feedback adoption 27:23 – How to connect with Heather 💬 Memorable Quote: “Surprising people is the quickest way to degrade trust—and it’s really hard to come back from that.” – Heather Cassar

In this episode, Amir sits down with Girish Mirchandani, Head of Talent at WestBridge Capital, to unpack the nuances of executive recruiting across stages and geographies. From Series A scrappiness to global scale-ups, they explore what makes a successful hire, how founders should engage in the process, and why hiring for today often trumps hiring for tomorrow. Girish also offers a behind-the-scenes look at managing cross-border buildouts and aligning stakeholders on both sides of the globe. 🔑 Key Takeaways: Hire for the stage you're in: Optimizing for the current growth phase is more practical than over-indexing on future readiness. Best athlete vs. exact fit: Founders should balance domain expertise with leadership traits and adaptability when hiring executives. Founder engagement matters: Weekly, structured check-ins and full-team involvement in hiring create alignment and momentum. Cross-border hiring works—with discipline: Time zones and cultural fluency can be overcome through consistent communication and a shared entrepreneurial mindset. 💬 Standout Quote: “Hire for now. If you can find someone who gets you from $5 million to $100 million, you’re lucky—but it’s rare. Hire based on track record and get to the next milestone.” – Girish Mirchandani ⏱ Timestamped Highlights: 00:00 – Intro: Meet Girish Mirchandani and WestBridge Capital’s investment thesis 02:25 – Stage-specific recruiting: Why all stages are hard, but Series A brings unique founder challenges 03:43 – Best athlete vs. exact domain match: How to calibrate a search effectively 05:52 – Hire for now, not forever: The practical approach to reducing executive churn 07:44 – Founder involvement: Weekly calls and programmatic hiring with full team participation 10:15 – Candidate POV: Understanding founder imprint and building relationships early 14:38 – Small touches that win candidates: Advice for founders to show care beyond comp 15:55 – Cross-border hiring: How WestBridge handles global team build-outs 18:24 – Cultural fluency: The importance of global mindset and entrepreneurial drive

In this episode of The Talent Tango, Amir speaks with Allison DiDominick, Senior Technical Recruiting Manager at Flexport, about adopting AI interview tools to tackle inefficiencies in the hiring process. From delayed scorecards to inconsistent feedback, Allison walks us through the problem Flexport faced, the pilot implementation of BrightHire, and how AI tools are improving recruiter workflows and evidence-based hiring. 💡 Key Takeaways: Problem First, Then Tool: Flexport struggled with delayed or incomplete scorecards, especially in non-tech roles, which impacted hiring timelines and decision quality. Tool Adoption Strategy: BrightHire was piloted due to its integration with Greenhouse. Allison ensured participation from both recruiters and hiring managers across regions. Measurable Efficiency Gains: Recruiters reduced scorecard documentation time from ~20 minutes to ~5, reallocating time to higher-impact activities like sourcing and stakeholder collaboration. Cultural & Geographic Nuances Matter: GDPR compliance and candidate recording consent were more sensitive issues in EMEA, especially among technical talent. AI as a Supplement, Not a Replacement: Adoption hurdles included concerns about over-reliance on automated transcripts, especially from managers who value personal evaluation processes. 🕒 Timestamped Highlights: 00:00 – Intro to Allison and the challenge Flexport faced with interview scorecards 01:33 – Root problem: inconsistent, delayed, or vague feedback affecting hiring speed and quality 03:53 – Internal process improvements before adopting AI 05:04 – Why BrightHire was selected and how integration with Greenhouse helped 07:28 – Structuring the pilot and selecting participants 08:54 – GDPR, cultural adoption barriers, and opt-out dynamics in EMEA vs US 12:14 – Time savings and recruiter adoption: from 20 minutes to 5 14:46 – Resistance from a marketing leader and how it was addressed 17:40 – Enhancing objectivity and decision confidence in debriefs 20:56 – Reclaiming recruiter hours: from admin to strategy and sourcing 22:20 – What’s next: evaluating alternatives, and deeper analytics from BrightHire 🔖 Quote of the Episode: “The whole idea is that it’s an efficiency gain… so you can apply that time to more strategic work, not just busy work.” — Allison DiDominick