Brad Van Vugt is Cofounder & CEO of Battlesnake, a competitive multiplayer game for web developers. The rules and game docs for Battlesnake are all open source. This episode's discussion is heavily focused on community. We discuss the community's influence on the initial product scope, roadmap, and much more!

Guest Ashley Williams Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are super excited to have Ashley Williams joining us. Ashley is the Founder and CEO of Axo. She is also a former member of the Rust Core Team, founder of the Rust Foundation, and served as its first Executive Director. She was the leader of the Node.js Community Committee and founded the NodeTogether educational initiative. Today, Ashley shares her background with us from working at NPM, joining Mozilla, building the Rust Foundation, and she fills us in on Axo, which she explains is the tool company for tool companies. She also has some suggestions on how open source projects can get money to become successful in the long term. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more! [00:01:41] Ashley explains what Axo does. [00:04:07] When Ashley moved from Node to Rust, she tells us what she took to the community there from the lessons she learned from Node, and how she wanted to build great communities in Rust. [00:09:35] We learn more about the process of building the Rust Foundation and why building it was necessary. [00:15:02] Justin wonders what it was that made the organizations calm again and why did they stick with Rust. [00:17:07] Ashley explains what the difference is for her and why one is better for open source software sustainability. [00:21:24] How do open source projects position themselves in the future to continue to have stake in their own governance and their own sustainability and where does Ashley think they should be investing their time? [00:23:28] We hear some tips from Ashley about the best way for a project to have a conversation with each other about setting goals and intentions for their project in a way that isn’t alienating. [00:30:02] Ashley shares a little of her background with us after leaving NPM, joining Mozilla, and she tells us about a tool she built called, wasm-pack. [00:33:35] We find out where can you learn about Axo, get involved, and if it’s open source. [00:35:15] Ashley shares some tips on what open source projects can do to get money to help themselves go forward and become financially viable in the long term. [00:40:11] Find out where you can follow Ashley on the web. Quotes [00:05:57] “I got super burned out of community work and Node and everyone kept throwing it in my face that I wasn’t technical. If I wasn’t so busy doing all this other stuff maybe I would commit some code.” [00:06:59] “When you build a community in reaction to something, when you stop reacting to that thing it’s hard to figure out what you do next and how you grow it.” [00:10:18] “It’s way worse to have a foundation too early than having a foundation too late.” [00:17:49] “I love to say ergonomics is eighty percent familiarity, and it appears to be true for organizations that are doing fundraising,” [00:18:31] “The goal of that Linux Foundation generation was to get corporations to use open source, which in a way is the opposite of making it sustainable because it adds an incredible burden.” [00:20:20] “I don’t think charity is the same as sustainability.” [00:24:23] “Try and get people to itch the same way.” [00:24:42] “Having really strong communication brand and marketing helps drive that shared collective vision.” [00:24:50] “I think Rust had really fantastic marketing for a really long time and that helped drive the community to have as much of a shared vision as is possible in a group of software engineers.” [00:29:00] “I don’t know if open source wants to be sustained.” [00:32:42] “Pay attention to the types of open source maintainers that are getting hired versus the ones that aren’t, because there are some patterns that no one should be proud of.” [00:35:57] “Get a company that loves your project and then get them to hire you to work on it.” [00:39:49] “The era of open source we’re in, there’s need for more safeguards.” Spotlight [00:41:01] Justin’s spotlight is axii.axo.dev. [00:41:34] Richard’s spotlight is an animated Chobani yogurt commercial. [00:42:25] Ashley’s spotlight is the Embroidery Trouble Shooting Guide. Links SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter (https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Justin Dorfman Twitter (https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Ashley Williams Twitter (https://twitter.com/ag_dubs) Ashley Williams LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleygwilliams) Axo (https://www.axo.dev/) Axo Twitter (https://twitter.com/axodotdev?lang=en) Sustain Podcast-Episode 135: Tracy Hinds on Node.js’s CommComm and PMs in Open Source (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/135) Sustain Podcast-Episodes featuring guest Ewa Jodlowska (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/ewa-jodlowska) Sustain Podcast-Episode featuring guest Deb Nicholson (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/debofthenorth) Sustain Podcast-Episode featuring guest Karen Sandler (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/karen-sandler) Sustain Podcast-Episode 56-Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On A Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/56) Sustain Open Source Design Podcast (https://sosdesign.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Podcast-Episodes featuring guest Mike McQuaid (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/mcquaid) axii.axo (https://axii.axo.dev/) Eat today, feed tomorrow-Chobani commercial (YouTube) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS-sJQkr0H4) Embroidery Trouble Shooting Guide (https://web.archive.org/web/20140310190221/http:/www.sewingandembroiderywarehouse.com/embtrb.htm) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Ashley Williams.

The realities of open source This week’s newsletter is pretty much one big ball of wholesome goodness. There’s a fun retro project, a super detailed article about variable fonts, a designer shaking up the Arabic type education space, and a wonderful short film about an icon of hand lettering / sign writing. In the nerd alert we’re getting into the guts of what it really means to exist in the open source space. The highs, the challenges, the fun, and the opportunities. Olivia grills Micah on all of the open source things, and we’re also putting out a little call out to the community for some extra help in running the back-end of the open source part of the League, so make sure you listen for more deets. As usual, if you spot anything cool on the internets that you’d like us to chat about, hit us up on Twitter or Instagram. You’ll find us @theleagueof on both platforms. Weekly Typographic Newsletter Links