BetaTalk - The Renewable Energy and Low Carbon Heating Podcast

Send us a textJoin Nathan's guests David & Rob from Fornax and dive into the nitty-gritty of the Boiler Upgrade Scheme (BUS) consultation and explore how third-party finance could be the key to unlocking widespread domestic heat pump adoption. We'll break down the "finance gap challenge," look at what makes third-party ownership work, and dissect the pros and cons of different financing models.In this episode, we discuss:The Finance Gap Challenge: Why current BUS grants alone aren't enough for mass market adoption and how existing loan products fall short for consumers and installers.The Power of Third-Party Ownership: How it dramatically increases heat pump installations by offering: Superior consumer protection: If the system fails, customers stop paying, and the financer is responsible for resolution.Risk alignment: Financiers are incentivized to ensure proper installation and ongoing performance.Better affordability and accessibility: Eliminates large upfront capital requirements.Support for installer businesses: Creates sustainable, predictable maintenance income.What Works: Consumer Hire vs. What Doesn't:Consumer Hire agreements: The only commercially viable third-party ownership model under UK regulation. Subject to robust FCA Consumer Duty protections—not "lightly regulated."Consumers have clear and simple mechanisms to keep their system; providers don't want them back!Why Hire Purchase models are problematic: Despite being highlighted in the consultation, they remain commercially unworkable due to existing financial regulations.Consumer Protection Reality Check:Consumer preference surveys don't equal deliverable products—regulatory constraints matter.Consumer protection isn't free: Every additional measure either limits access to affordable heat pumps or makes them more expensive/unworkable. Duplicative measures unfairly penalize consumers.Repossession rights are fundamental to risk pricing; removing them increases costs for all consumers (e.g., mortgages).Maximum term limits would reduce affordability and increase financial exclusion.Many proposed duplicative requirements (e.g., Ofgem doing things the FCA already does) deter small businesses and hinder independent installers.Innovation vs. Prescription Risk:Over-prescription risks stifling innovation just as the market gains momentum.Standard contract requirements could recreate past failures like the Green Deal/Green Homes Grant.THIS SEASON IS BEING SPONSORED BY INTERGAS Support the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textJoin us for a fascinating conversation with Mike Costain, the Managing Director of The Installer Show! In this special episode, we pull back the curtain on the UK's leading event for heating and plumbing professionals, exploring what's new, what's next, and how the show is expanding its horizons internationally.But that's not all! Mike also shares his invaluable personal experience as a homeowner, detailing the installation and performance of his own heat pump system. He opens up about the common misconceptions and knowledge gaps within the building industry that can hinder heat pump adoption, particularly among builders who may not fully grasp their efficacy.Crucially, you'll hear about the unique connection to this installation, as our very own host Nathan had the pleasure of arranging the engineer for Mike's heat pump installation. We delve into the journey from initial curiosity to a fully operational, energy-efficient home heating solution.Looking ahead to this year's Installer Show, Nathan will be at the forefront of innovation, helping to run The Installer Show's groundbreaking AI platform – a first-of-its-kind initiative for the event. Mike also offers exclusive insights into the exciting developments at the show and its ambitious plans for international expansion.In this episode, you'll discover:Behind the Scenes at The Installer Show: What's new, what's hot, and what to expect from the UK's premier heating and plumbing event.The MD's Personal Heat Pump Journey: Mike shares firsthand insights into living with a heat pump system, its benefits, and any surprises along the way.Tackling the Knowledge Gap: A candid discussion on how a lack of understanding among builders about heat pump functionality can impede installations.The Inside Story of Mike's Install: Hear how our host played a direct role in connecting Mike with the skilled engineer for his heat pump installation.Revolutionising the Show: Our host's role in pioneering The Installer Show's never-before-seen AI platform.The Installer Show Goes Global: Mike's vision for the show's international expansion and what that means for the industry.This season is being sponsored by IntergasSupport the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textIn the fourth episode of the Heat Pump Ready special bulletin series, Nathan talks to three Heat Pump Ready projects to discuss the topic of ‘Improving the customer journey’. Nathan is joined by Jack Jarvis from EDF, Gareth Robertson from Thermly and Lucy Fairchild from Oxford City Council to discuss.Support the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textIn this episode, Nathan invites Mick Wall, his 'expert consumer,' back to have a discussion with the lads from Havenwise, a company dedicated to helping with quality heat pump installations. Havenwise runs an API which optimizes the weather curves on the heat pump, as well as looking at time-of-use tariffs. You can choose to use various functionalities. For example, Mick only uses the optimizer for his space heating. Nathan likes what Henri and Alex at Havenwise are trying to achieve. Take a listen...it's a very enjoyable one!This season is being sponsored by Intergas Heating Solutions. Support the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textJoin host Nathan Gambling as he journeys to Intergas HQ alongside legendary heat pump engineer Steve Webster to get the inside scoop on their high-quality stainless steel hot water cylinders, specifically designed for heat pump systems. Steve shares his firsthand experience testing these cylinders on recent installations, highlighting their exceptional build quality and resilience during transportation – a welcome change from the damage often encountered with other brands.In this insightful episode, Nathan, Steve, and Intergas's Dave Hall delve into:The Intergas Manufacturing Process: Get a behind-the-scenes look at how these robust stainless steel cylinders are crafted, emphasising the quality and attention to detail that sets them apart.Unboxing Success Stories: Steve recounts his positive experiences with the cylinders arriving on site in perfect condition, a significant advantage for installers.Heat Pump Industry Evolution: Dave and Steve, both early pioneers in UK domestic heat pump systems, share their perspectives on the significant changes and advancements they've witnessed over the years.Anti-Freeze Valves: A discussion on the necessity of anti-freeze valves in heat pump installations.Future of the BUS Scheme & A2A Systems: Thought-provoking discussion around the potential inclusion of Air-to-Air (A2A) systems in the Boiler Upgrade Scheme (BUS) and the concerns about a potential influx of low-quality, mass installations.Key Takeaways:Intergas's stainless steel cylinders offer superior build quality and are designed to withstand the demands of heat pump systems.Reliable delivery and undamaged products on site save time and hassle for installers.The heat pump industry has evolved significantly, and understanding the nuances of system design and regulations is crucial.The potential inclusion of A2A in the BUS raises questions about installation quality and long-term efficiency.Support the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textEpisode Description: Host Nathan dives into the rapidly evolving world of Artificial Intelligence and its potential impact on the plumbing and heating industry. Joining him are Barrie and Amrit from Lorefuly, experts in leveraging technology for the trades.Key Discussion Points:The Hallucination Hazard: The trio discusses the crucial issue of Large Language Model (LLM) "hallucinations" – where AI systems confidently present inaccurate or fabricated information. This raises serious concerns about relying solely on unverified AI content.RAG to the Rescue: The Power of Accurate Data: Barrie and Amrit explain the concept of Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG) and its importance in ensuring AI provides reliable and trustworthy information. By grounding AI responses in curated and accurate data, RAG offers a pathway to creating genuinely useful resources for professionals in the field.Lorefuly & BetaTeach at the Installer Show 2025: Exciting news! Lorefuly and BetaTeach will be showcasing their AI-powered solutions at the Installer Show 2025 at the NEC. Find out how they are harnessing AI to benefit plumbers and heating engineers.OEM Opportunities: Heating appliance manufacturers can get involved in this innovative initiative! Learn how OEMs can contribute their expertise and data to create valuable AI-driven tools for installers.Pre-Show Webinars: Stay informed! Nathan, Barrie, and Amrit announce upcoming webinars (first one here: https://tinyurl.com/BetaTalk-AI designed to provide more details on how OEMs can participate and the benefits of getting involved.Mentioned:Artificial Intelligence (AI)Large Language Models (LLMs)Hallucination (in AI)Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG)LorefulyBetaTeachInstaller Show 2025 (NEC)Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs)Support the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textNathan speaks with Leah Robson, owner of a small SME (Your Energy Your Way) installing heat pumps, batteries, and solar, about her recent appearance at Westminster. Leah gave evidence to the "Workforce Planning to Deliver Clean, Secure Energy" Committee, invited through Ellora Coupe of "Her Retrofit Space." The discussion centres on whether Leah's concerns about workforce training, particularly for heat pump installation, were understood by the committee.Key Discussion Points:Westminster Testimony: Leah shares her experience presenting to the committee and her assessment of whether her points regarding the challenges faced by small businesses were acknowledged.The Three-Day Training Issue: The core of the episode focuses on the prevalence of three-day heat pump installation courses and Leah's concerns about their adequacy. She highlights potential issues with the depth of knowledge gained and the practical experience of some trainers.Heating Training Grant (HTG): Who Wins? Nathan and Leah explore the effectiveness of the HTG, questioning whether the primary beneficiaries are the awarding bodies, training centers, or the engineers themselves.Engineer Perspectives: Feedback from experienced gas engineers who have taken these short courses suggests the training is insufficient and doesn't adequately prepare them for real-world heat pump installations.Taxpayer Value: The episode raises concerns about the value for money for UK taxpayers funding the HTG if the resulting training isn't producing competent installers.Support the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textIn this insightful episode, host Nathan sits down with two key figures from the Heat Pump Association (HPA) – CEO Charlotte Lea and Chair Craig Dolan – to explore the role the HPA plays in the evolving UK heating landscape. They delve into the value the association brings to the industry, particularly as the nation transitions towards low-carbon heating solutions.The conversation tackles the fundamental question of whether industry associations are still necessary in today's rapidly changing world. Charlotte and Craig passionately argue for their continued relevance, highlighting their crucial function in providing a unified voice for the heat pump sector and driving positive change.A potentially contentious area is explored as Nathan raises the issue of potential conflicts of interest arising from HPA membership that may include companies also affiliated with the boiler industry and their strong advocacy for hydrogen boilers through the Heating and Hot water Council (HHIC). This leads to a nuanced discussion about navigating diverse interests within the broader heating industry.Nathan expresses his support for the HPA's proactive new strategy focused on amplifying the voices of heat pump installers – the boots on the ground who are essential to the successful rollout of this technology.The guests showcase the tangible benefits of HPA membership by highlighting the development and release of valuable industry resources, such as the new Residual Current Device (RCD) guidance and comprehensive heat pump system commissioning documents. The conversation then shifts to the complexities of the UK heating controls industry. Nathan and his guests discuss whether the competitive nature of the market might inadvertently hinder the adoption of common engineering sense and best practices in the design of energy-efficient heating systems.Finally, Charlotte and Craig shed light on the significant policy work undertaken by the HPA, including their collaborative efforts with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (DESNZ). They explain how the association actively engages with policymakers to shape regulations and support the widespread adoption of heat pump technology in the UK.Key Discussion Points:The core value proposition of the Heat Pump Association in the UK heating industry.The ongoing relevance and necessity of industry associations in the current climate.Navigating potential conflicts of interest with members also involved in the boiler/hydrogen fuel debate via the HHIC.The HPA's new focus on empowering and promoting the voice of heat pump installers.The importance and impact of HPA-produced technical documents, such as the new RCD guidance and commissioning documents.The challenges and opportunities within the UK heating controls industry and the potential impact of competition on best practices.The HPA's crucial policy work and collaboration with the Energy department.Support the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textNathan chats with Dan Large a Director at Solaris Energy. Dan has been involved with the design, installation and maintenance of heat pump heating systems for a good number of years. The important topic of water quality comes up and Solaris Energy use VDI 2035 methods rather than a chemical inhibitor approach. Dan is on the installer working group at MCS and gives insight into this process.The episode also discusses heat pump controls and how Dan and Solaris Energy have become involved with the heat pump manufacturer Kronoterm.This season is being sponsored by Primary Pro a professional pipe insulation systemSupport the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

Send us a textWelcome back to BetaTalk, the podcast dedicated to exploring the exciting world of renewable heating! In this episode, host Nathan is joined by two fantastic guests: Barry Sharp from Renewable Heat and a familiar voice to BetaTalk listeners, and Scott Sanford who has recently embarked on his own renewable heating journey.Our conversation kicks off with a fascinating deep dive into Scott's personal experience installing a Viessmann heat pump system in his own home. We hear firsthand about his installation journey, the challenges and triumphs he faced, and the benefits he's now experiencing. This very installation was also recently featured in the SNIPEF magazine, offering a real-world perspective on adopting heat pump technology.The episode then continues with a theme that Nathan and Barry have explored in previous episodes: the crucial role of mentorship within the heating industry. We delve into Scott's heating career, his motivations for embracing renewable technologies, and his active involvement within SNIPEF. We discuss how mentorship has potentially played a part in his journey and the importance of knowledge sharing within the sector as we transition towards a greener future.In this episode, you'll learn about:Scott Sanford's personal experience installing a Viessmann heat pump system in his home.The key considerations and potential hurdles involved in a domestic heat pump installation.Insights from Scott's journey as featured in the SNIPEF magazine.The ongoing discussion between Nathan and Barry regarding the significance of mentorship in the renewable heating industry.Scott's career path within the heating sector and his role as a SNIPEF member.The value of knowledge sharing and support networks within the plumbing and heating community.This season is being sponsored by PrimaryPro, a professional system for insulating heat pump pipeworkSupport the showLearn more about heat pump heating by followingNathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky