The Art of Subduction

What really goes into choosing a graduate program in the geosciences? In this episode, Yale PhD candidate Maoli Vizcaíno offers an honest look at the decisions that shape an academic career: from navigating funding and institutional support to choosing between a master’s and a PhD. —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu —————— Transcript Choosing Between UT Austin and Yale [00:36:33] Diya Gaur: So what made you choose between like, okay, well, what were the things that you were considering when you had to pick between UT, Austin, and Yale? Like, what were the maybe different things in terms of, you know, academics or resources? What exactly drew you to Yale over UT?  [00:36:48] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so, um I think it was, it was a couple things. Uh, both were by my family. So it was by my dad and it was by my sister. So I was like, great. UT, uh, the professor, he, um, had a project that I could go in. For the first couple of years. And that was really attractive to me because I had never come up with my own research project before yet. So I was like, that'll be great to like, have something that I know I'm doing while I'm, you know, getting everything settled and like starting this program, you know, versus at Yale, I knew I'd have to come in and figure it out. [00:37:24] : And that was  [00:37:25] Maoli Vizcaíno: intimidating to me. Um, but I, you know, I felt both, both professors who I was looking at were people who like, I had heard a lot about from, you know, other people and like, you know, I think it's always important to like. Oh, and as a side note too, like, unsolicited advice you didn't ask me, but I will say if, you know, you are interested in going in, I would definitely, if you haven't already, like, think about where you would be able to do research. I think that if someone wants to do geology, like, undergrad research is, like, extremely important. I think more And then in other fields where it's kind of a given that you're not like gonna always be like, have done biology research or like, if you're pre pre med or whatever, because it's like, why, you know, lots of dangerous things going on. I don't, I don't know. I don't know anything about pre med, but for geology, I think, you know, you know, thinking about where, where schools, you will be able to like, talk to professors, gain a real relationship with a couple of them, like work in their labs for real, for real. Like, I think that's a huge, huge thing. Like, something you should think about. For sure. But yeah, so research wise, that was it. Um, I ended up choosing Yale, um, because, um, one, is I knew that I was going to be coming in with another student. So I knew that my, um, the professor, my professor here at Yale, she was also recruiting another student, so there were two of us. And so, um. I talked to her and she was like, I'm probably gonna go. She was actually also choosing between UT and Yale. Oh wow, interesting. She was looking at biology at UT and then obviously, but yeah. So then she was like, I think I'm going to go Yale. And I was like, okay, if I go to Yale, I'll be going with someone. And I love having a buddy, like I love commiserating. And I was like, pretty sure I would be the only student coming into the other lab. And then, um, UT. UT really did me dirty. So I did liberal arts undergrad, but I also did a master's. I remember they were like, um, you don't have the correct prereqs from undergrad for the program. So you'd have to take an extra class to fulfill those prereqs. And the professor I was applying with, he was like, she has a master's degree, like, who cares if she missed one science class in undergrad, like, you don't have the pre reqs. So that was another thing that was kind of like, I was like, okay, so I'm going to have to, if I go to UT, I'm going to have to take an extra class, undergrad, like, come on, that was so long ago. So that was a bummer. And then also in the end, like Yale, like money, honestly, they offered me so much money, like so much. Right. And I think that's a huge thing. That's, I think there are so many amazing, like, public schools, state schools, et cetera, but private schools have levels of resources, and I feel like, in my experience, with less red tape, um, obviously everything's a bureaucratic mess, but it's like so much Easier, I, again, in my experience, to like just have funding for stuff like I did for undergrad and then public school for my master's. And then at Stanford, going and then seeing again, like, cause I had forgotten after two years what private school was like, seeing it happen again. I was like, right, like, this is huge. I'm going to be born for six years. Like, I want money. So yeah, so that was it. It was like having a buddy, being close to my sister. And the money.  [00:40:40] Diya Gaur: So does Yale fund the research that you do or is it like other organizations that are kind of like, you know, funding your projects and, you know, so on?  [00:40:49] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, so Yale does do a stipend for all of the, um, GSAS, Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. So if you're in the professional schools, like the law school, the business school, nursing school, you're paying. PhD vs Master's Programs: Funding and Stipends [00:41:00] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, but for the PhD programs and the mass and the master's programs that are not, That are not professional schools. Actually, don't quote me on the master's schools. I don't know about that. The master's programs. The PhD programs, you get paid. Um, so we get a stipend. It's like a regular salary. Like, I get a check times a year. Actually, a year. Oh my god. Two times a month. Um. Yeah, and we just unionized, like, last year, I think, so the stipends have all increased, so we're making, like, 49, 000 a year.  [00:41:30] Diya Gaur: Oh, okay, so that's pretty good, yeah. Yes, it is,  [00:41:34] Maoli Vizcaíno: especially with, like, what it used to be, and even still, like, we were always making the higher end as STEM students, like, the humanities students were making, like, almost, like, 10k lower than us before the union, so that was, like, crazy. But yeah, so they pay us, and then you can get cut, like, extra money, kind of, from like different fellowships and things. There is a cap, um, I think you can make like four thousand more dollars if you get like an external fellowship, like that's the amount extra, and then everything else like just goes to the school and like you get your accolades and everything, but there is kind of a level of like a, of a cap on how much like you can make. I see. And we're not allowed to work, um, have other jobs, like we, um, I think it's. You can't have another job, but it can't be more than 10 hours a week. I see. Yeah, so it's like I teach high schoolers after school. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, it's like an after school program.  Balancing Outreach and Graduate Studies [00:42:30] Maoli Vizcaíno: And that's another thing too, you mentioned like outreach before, and I will say that is something that I feel like is a lot easier as a grad student than an undergrad. You really are so busy in undergrad, like with all the homework and all the clubs and like you're trying to get, you're trying to get everything together, you know what I mean? And in grad school, it's like, obviously you are still like really busy, um, and lots going on, but it's all like the same thing, you know, it's like. And like, once you get a handle on that, then it's like, you start feeling like, I'm saying you, me. You know, I mean, I came in knowing that that's something I wanted to do. And then the first two years, I was like, Oh my God,  [00:43:05] : like, you know,  [00:43:06] Maoli Vizcaíno: my third year, I started going back to like, you know, the things I wanted to do, like, we have the museum here and I knew I wanted to work with them and do outreach with kids and stuff. And I've really not really kind of settled into that now in my fourth year. So it took a bit, but I, you know, I was like, this is something I knew I wanted to do. And I was like, I don't want to get lost in like, you know, like the research of it all. And, you know, and like, that's cool, but you know, it's, it's not, it's kind of, it can get kind of soulless, you know. [00:43:33] Diya Gaur: No, yeah, like, for sure. Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. No, actually,  [00:43:35] Maoli Vizcaíno: I don't, I didn't have anything else to say on that. No,  Differences Between Master's and PhD Programs [00:43:38] Diya Gaur: yeah, I was just gonna ask, so what are, like, the key differences in the master's versus PhD programs in your experience, like, specifically for geology, you know? I mean, I know you mentioned funding is one thing, but is there anything different, like, curriculum wise or just, like, research wise, like, any limitations? [00:43:56] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, I'd say, and in very general strokes, I'd say the So the master's will be, you know, two years. And I'd say often you'll get, like, I was paid for my master's coming in. I came in on a grant to do a specific thing that my advisor had come up with, do that for two years. And at the same time, I'm taking classes. And then like your last year, you're like not really taking classes and you're like doing more writing and you write your, your thesis, um, and like completing this research project. So I'd say the master's, it's a lot more like, you know what you're doing. You come in, like, They tell it like, you know what classes you need to take, you probably have a res like a project defined for you, so you can just start working on it. Versus the PhD in my field in the U. S., I would say five to six years is pretty, is pretty standard. Um, five more than six, but in a lot of programs six years, especially since the pandemic. Um, but yeah, so that it's definitely a lot more loosey goosey, like. I have heard your first two years set classes and then sometime at some point in like, depending on the program, first, second or third year, you're taking your qualifying exam, which is like this big test. It's like this big oral exam. Some people even have a written part or like, it's just your committee asking. You think you present to them, they ask you questions and like, you just need to prove that you know all this stuff. And then they're trying to figure out everything that you don't know. So they'll keep going and then you'll probably cry. And then it'll be over. They tell you if you pass or not. Um, and then after that, you're a PhD candidate. And then from there, it is just dissertation writing. Like you're doing your own research. You're kind of expected to kind of be like more independent, like just kind of going and doing stuff, doing your check ins and whatever. But like, you know, kind of, you know, Starting to, to be really independent. Yeah,  [00:45:54] Diya Gaur: I see.  Deciding Between a Master's and a PhD [00:45:55] Diya Gaur: So, okay, so for someone who's like just going into geology or maybe just pursuing it as an undergrad, how do they decide, like, how far in the, you know, grad schooling process they want to go? Like, you know, what are the benefits of doing, like, Maybe a master's compared to a PhD or maybe just doing a master's in something completely different like maybe business or medicine? [00:46:15] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think it definitely depends on, you know, what you want to do. If you want to go and like professor route, you got to do the PhD. Um, you can, you can, like, adjunct with a master's, I think, in some places, but that's not, like, a livable wage, so I wouldn't recommend doing that. Um, yeah, so I have a friend, one of my friends from UD, she stopped at the master's, and she works for, well, she works for USGS, and now she works for the EPA, and, like, that's fine, so, like, industry, for industry jobs, you can get away with a master's for a lot of it, and then it's just more, like, the pay scale at that point, that's, like, you know, if you have a PhD. I don't know. So PhD, issues with getting the PhD is that you can be overqualified for things from like the degree standpoint, but also underqualified in that like you know some like niche thing really well like not really translatable to like anything besides professor stuff so like i knew from the jump i don't want to go into academia and that's like in my interviews and stuff i was saying that and there's a lot of like okay well then why are you doing this if like you don't it's like well i like doing research and i'm gonna get paid for it if i do this so like i want to do that but it's i probably you know need to be prepared to like Maybe not see how far I can get without mentioning that as a PhD, you know, when I'm applying to something in industry, especially like if it's like not in a government position, like at a company or something, you know, like, cause people like, there is kind of this perception that it's like, you can kind of, you are really good at like one thing or, you know, only know one thing, but like, they love to like pound into our heads all the time. They're like, as a PhD student, you have, You gain so many other skills, like project management, working with people, communication, presentations, verbally and orally. You learn how to write, you learn how to do research, troubleshooting, depending on what kind of work you do, you learn all sorts of instruments, how to use them, like safety protocol, literally so much stuff. So, you know, and, and it's just at that point, it's like, you need to know how to spin, which I feel like I can do my ability to spin. But yeah, so you know, it's it really just Yeah, I think I think getting a master's is like really great for like so many things. Yeah, so I don't know. I think it would just depend on that. It's like if you want to go into government or industry, I think a master's is totally great for that. Professor, you kind of have to do the PhD. And I don't know, if you have a PhD, you can also do lots of things, but like you might also be kind of putting yourself in a position where people don't know what to do with you. [00:48:54] Diya Gaur: Yeah, no, I see that for sure. That is definitely a dilemma. I mean, for me, I just know that I want to do like maybe a bachelor's in geology, but I think for me where the main problem lies is just kind of figuring out what to do after that. I know it's kind of early, but you know, to make these types of plans, it's never too early. But like, you know, I remember Maybe freshman year, I was stressing out about, like, what I wanted to do in college, and looking back, what I wanted to do initially was medicine, and, you know, over the course of four years, it suddenly changed, well, not suddenly, but it gradually changed over to geology, and so, you know, I think also the experience that people get from their undergrad, and, like you said, the importance of doing research in the undergrad, that definitely dictates a lot of You know, what people choose to end up pursuing for graduate schooling, and so I think that's what you said was very important to consider in context as well, so for sure. Research and Career Paths in Geology [00:49:50] Diya Gaur: How would you describe the overall environment of being a PhD candidate at Yale? Is there anything specific in terms of the EPS department or geology, the community specifically?  [00:50:03] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, I, I mean, it's interesting, you know, every, every place has its things.  [00:50:10] Diya Gaur: Do you do, like, a lot of intermingling with the other geology or EPS majors? Oh, yeah,  [00:50:16] Maoli Vizcaíno: yeah. Well, I started, well, I started, we were still doing, like, virtual stuff. So, like, my first year was still, like, lots of, like, Zoom class and stuff. But, like, second year onward, it's been, like, more, um, yeah, I see, you know, we have, like, a whole hallway, it's, like, the grad wing, where we're, all of our offices are in there. So, I'll sit on the wall, get bored, take a walk, and go bother someone. Um, yeah, you know, I, I, I love my friends, I have friends, like, in my lab, and then also in other labs, too, and we do lots of stuff  [00:50:42] Diya Gaur: together. Mm hmm.  [00:50:43] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah. Mm hmm.  [00:50:45] Diya Gaur: Could you remind me, like, specifically where in Texas you're from? I'm from Fort Worth. From Texas to the Gulf of Mexico: Research Journeys [00:50:51] Diya Gaur: Okay, cool, so I did have this question initially, but I was wondering, so you were talking about all these different places, like, you know, about like, getting seasick and, you know, fieldwork, and so, as I went through your profile earlier, like, before our podcast episode that we're recording now, I was seeing that you also do work in The Gulf of Mexico and also the Caribbean, or you research those places specifically, and so I was wondering how did you make that change from, you know, being in Texas and then pursuing research in those like very specific places? [00:51:24] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so um, I was, Always interested in that area. I'm Dominican, so I like, in terms of like, as an ocean scientist, I'm like, yeah, like, I want to do that. Like, the dream is to, like, find a way to, like, do work, like, over there and, like, here and, like, be, like, you know, do a back and forth thing and have that kind of be, like, an area that I Work in, um, more long term so that I can also, like, it'll be great, like, you know, going to see family and stuff, but yeah, so with the Gulf of Mexico, I mentioned earlier, like, the data set I got that I based my first project around was from this really amazing long term data set that some colleagues collected in the Gulf of Mexico that they just did not have the, you know, they're like, we don't really have the bandwidth right now to like, kind of process all this, like, if you don't mind. And so it's been really great. I've learned a lot of stuff through this and I extended the Caribbean like for myself. I will say that since writing that bio, things have changed as they do. So I'm, my second project is less on that. And it's more on Kind of this like global data set, um, still near and dear to my heart and like something I want to maybe for project three or something. Get into. But yeah, and in terms of, you know, the area, it's like, yeah, I don't know, the Gulf of Mexico, it's like, okay, yes, we were like landlocked in Fort Worth, but still, you know, it reminds me of home, like, um, I like thinking about the South. So yeah.  [00:52:57] Diya Gaur: Have you done like any research specifically in Texas yet? [00:53:01] Maoli Vizcaíno: No, I haven't. I don't even really know what the rocks are like in Texas. I was like, oh no, my geo knowledge came after. And like my field camp I did when I was abroad. Um, so it was like a joint, it was like, though it was like a geo program, so it was like had field camp at the beginning and then the abroad after, so that was great for killing like two birds. [00:53:20] : Mm hmm.  [00:53:21] Maoli Vizcaíno: Because it was like, it was like when I, when I left, I was just trying to go, my sister went to college in upstate New York, so she was there, so when I was looking at colleges I was like, I'm gonna go far away and also be close to her, so like, that was kind of like that, like what made me go over there. And then so from there, like all my. Different, you know, scientific interests formed and like me coming back to like Gulf Mexico, Texas adjacent stuff is more of like, cause I'm like, it's so funny. It's like the longer I'm away, the more annoying I am. I am one of those Texans. Everybody knows I'm from Texas. [00:53:52] Diya Gaur: Yes. Love Texas. Everyone needs to know that I'm a Texan. Like Texas alone.  [00:53:57] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah. I was like, okay, we'll ignore the fact that I hated it so bad growing up because now I'm an adult now. I'm like, no, I'm from Texas. I have a shirt. I have the boots. I'm from Texas. Yelling at everybody. Buckies. No, exactly. Exactly. [00:54:11] Diya Gaur: I dunno how people live without Buckys. Like, I'm just wondering, when I go off to college, if I end up going outta state, what am I gonna do without buckies? Oh my gosh. I don't even wanna think about it. But yeah, I think that's one thing. And also.  Making Geosciences Accessible to High School Students [00:54:27] Diya Gaur: So I found you initially from the Geobiology conference at Yale, and so I'm going to AGU in December, and that's initially how I kind of did a bit more research on all these different types of conferences in Geobiology, and more specific to what I wanted to do in college, and so I was just wondering, from your standpoint, what's one thing that we could do Or maybe multiple things that we can do in order to make the geosciences a bit more accessible to high school students. [00:54:54] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, that is such a good question, because you told me. No, um, I mean, I think what you were saying earlier was really great, like, it's just, like, knowing everything that you can do with it, like, with the high schools I teach, we, like, are always emphasizing, like, how things can be, like, and we literally had, like, two jobs, like, this activity where they were, like, One word was bio like, it was like just different, like, fields. Biologists, archaeologists, oceanographer, like, all this stuff, like, psychology, like. linguistics and like we gave them two of them and we're like tell us some reason why these two people would talk to each other what's something that they could learn about or not learn about what's something that they have in common that they could like do or like put together you know and we had kids like trying to like holding up like physicists and linguists is like okay well how can and then there's easier ones like chemistry and like Like, biology, and like, that's like, easier to do, but you know, things like that, just like, literally trying to, like, stare at them, and like, make them, like, make these connections, and how all these things, like, yes, we like, put people in boxes, like, bio major, whatever, chem major, but it's like, it's like, it is all, There is connections everywhere. People do all sorts of things at the same time constantly. And it's really just for, you know, bureaucratic reasons that it's like you pick like one box, you know, it's like, but it's like, there's so much going on. And like, even like, With you as a person, it's the same way, you know, you're not just, you know, you're not just a woman, you're not just from Connecticut, you're not just, you know, any of these things, you're all sorts of things. Um, those are that as well. I think, um, trying to do, like, as much hands on stuff as possible is always a good bet. Like, and we have the program, like, in the museum, so all of our lessons plans end with them, like, doing something in, in the galleries.  [00:56:43] : Mm  [00:56:43] Maoli Vizcaíno: hmm. So, yeah. It's tough though, because it's also like, it's not just about cool, you know, a lot of these kids are really, are extremely pragmatic, you know, they're like, they, you know, they know that they need to grow up and that they need to make money, so it's like, not like ignoring, like, it's not just, life is not just about what you're passionate about and about what you like doing, you know, so understanding that and also treating them like people who have Concerns for the future, you know, like, so like being straight up, I told him about my, like, my friend, I was like, she works for the EPA. Here's the things that she does. Here's what her day to day life is. Here's how much she makes. Like, if they don't know, why would they aspire to it? Especially if something as random as earth science, you know? Um, or even environmental science. It can sound interesting, but what does that mean? You know, they don't know what that means, aside from the fact that they're scared of climate change. Like, but yeah, anyway, so yeah, I think it's just like being like, I don't know, more, I feel like more information is always better. And like, being like, just not afraid to talk about things like, how much is this person making? How much school does this take? Is it okay to like, not, like, I always emphasize how I had no idea what I was doing until my sophomore year of college. [00:57:56] : And I  [00:57:56] Maoli Vizcaíno: took this job because I needed money, not because I thought the rocks were cool. Like later, you know, cause it was like, I was working with them and I started being like, well, what's all this about anyway, you know? And from there, and my advisor, she didn't care either. She didn't need me to be passionate, to dissolve these rocks. I think your body struggles a lot with that. Like everyone's always so like, Oh, and you just love it. And you're so obsessed with it. And I was like, no, like. I love what I do, but I don't love it more than I love money. You know what I mean? I'm not going to be poor my whole life to study these guys. Now, um, yeah, and I think that, you know, just being  [00:58:31] Diya Gaur: realistic is  [00:58:33] Maoli Vizcaíno: huge. I feel like it's huge for, like, younger students now, you know? There's like so much doom and gloom and it's like, okay, I'm being realistic and not in a broke the rest of your life way, but it's like, here's ways that  [00:58:44] : you can be  [00:58:45] Maoli Vizcaíno: broke doing this, but here's ways that you can be not broke. It is possible. [00:58:49] Diya Gaur: Yeah. You know, I feel like not many people talk about that aspect of geology especially. I feel like, so my dad, he is in medicine now, like he's a doctor, but he was initially doing research and it was not very well paying for him and that's why he decided to take that one step up to go into medicine and pursue that. But you know, not many people like, like to talk about that aspect of geology, just like, you know, the money sides of things and when I talk to people about it the majority of people that I hear from who are like, Have graduated with degrees in geology. They say, you know, I was like super passionate about it You know all these like really amazing things about geology But we never learned if there's like any of those more economic or financial motivations behind there as well and so I think yeah, that's a really good point and you also did mention earlier about like inclusivity and like That's like another, like, really, really major point, especially in the geosciences, you know, a couple of years ago, maybe like a couple of decades, like, the picture or the ideal geologist was maybe Indiana Jones, um, pardon me, Indiana Jones white men, but Yeah. I think now what we're trying to like achieve is a bit more diversity and inclusivity in the field, and I think that's really important for sure.  [01:00:03] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, and there's like studies on that too, it's like in like science fields, geology is literally like in like Last place or maybe site. It's like in terms of, um, diversity, there's been like no changes in the demographic in like decades. Yeah. And that's something that's real too. Like it's not, it is not easy for that to like kind of be the reality all the time.  [01:00:29] Diya Gaur: Right. Yeah. So. Do you specifically teach earth sciences to the high school students? Is it specifically earth sciences? Is it like interdisciplinary? What exactly are you teaching? Yeah, no, it's,  [01:00:41] Maoli Vizcaíno: um, it's, it's, it's interdisciplinary. It's like more STEM. I, of course, always, like, am really biased when it does get to earth science. I loved it, and they know. And I'm like, hey, you know, it's cooler than anything we've ever learned. Like, you know, kidding around. But, um, yeah, no, so it's all sorts of stuff. So it's fun for me, too, because I spend a lot of time, you know. I'm thinking about, again, like, you know, just this, and I forget sometimes that there's other fields.  [01:01:05] Diya Gaur: Yeah. Do you mind name dropping the program?  [01:01:08] Maoli Vizcaíno: Oh, oh yes, um, it is Yale Peabody, it's an evolutions program.  [01:01:14] Diya Gaur: Okay, I see.  [01:01:15] Maoli Vizcaíno: It's through the, yeah, it's through the museum. Um, they apply, and we assess, like, their general interests in science. So it doesn't have to be anything, like, super crazy, super specific, you know, but it's just, like,  [01:01:26] : Right. Um,  [01:01:27] Maoli Vizcaíno: but yeah, no, and I can, yeah, and like, talk to you about that anytime you want. Also, um, I will, um, I'll also be at AGU, so.  [01:01:36] Diya Gaur: Oh, you will? Oh my god, perfect! Yeah, yeah,  [01:01:38] Maoli Vizcaíno: I'll be there.  [01:01:39] Diya Gaur: Can definitely be. My poster presentation is on December 14th. It's like the Bright Stars program, so.  [01:01:46] Maoli Vizcaíno: That's awesome. Are you going to be there the whole time or just the 14th?  [01:01:50] Diya Gaur: I think, so it kind of just depends, um, I'll definitely be there the 14th, but as for the weekend, we'll see, because I was thinking of touring a couple of colleges as well, so yeah, because I'm already up there and  [01:02:03] : I  [01:02:03] Diya Gaur: think it's a good opportunity for sure. So I did have something to ask, but I forgot what exactly it was. Oh, okay. It was the hands on stuff. So I was gonna say, one, it's really good that Yale is promoting like earth sciences to high school students, and especially with the hands on stuff, I feel like we don't get enough of that in terms of accessibility for high school students. So for me, I have GeoForce Texas, which is obviously with UT Austin, and we're going out and seeing all these different Rock formations, like, in real life, but I feel like that is severely overlooked in, like, other programs, and, frankly, I don't know any programs outside of GeoForce that really promote the earth sciences or just geology specifically, and I think if we really want people to care about the earth, like, Be the next generation of people who are kind of like, combating the climate change crisis. It's really essential that we expand upon those opportunities and make it more accessible. Like, for me personally, I just felt really bad, because I, one, I just love the geosciences in general. It's just, like, overall, it's So much just stuff that you can learn about, but two, I don't really know, okay, this kind of goes back to what I just said, like I don't really know any programs outside of GeoForce, and so I feel like making geology a bit more accessible to people across the United States or even the world is like such a big thing that we can do in order to just like, kind of like hand off that big burden of climate change and make it a bit more pressing for the next generation to kind of take care of, because I feel like for people who are maybe Gen X, Gen Y, it's not as much of their problem as it, as it is like for the problem of Gen Z, it's really now in our hands to solve it. Challenges and Realities of Climate Change Outreach [01:03:51] Diya Gaur: And so, you know, I'm kind of surprised that there's not too much of talk about this specifically, like, about how we desperately need people to help Fight against climate change. Like, obviously there's climate activists, but we need people who are working behind the scenes and not just doing activism to stop it. So, yeah.  [01:04:09] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, no, it's, it's tough. It's tough. Like, I get it. I get it from, I, I, it's, it's just, yeah, because it's like, you know, grad students are like so overworked and so are professors and like, there's so much, it's like you really have to fight against climate change. Like I was saying earlier, like getting caught up in like your work and what you're doing, because that's the other thing too. In a lot of, in a lot of instances, it's like, you're really not, it's about what your output is and like less about like the, you know, the impact to some like kids, you know what I mean? But it can be really hard to feel like that sort of thing is a priority when you're in the thick of it. And you always think that at the next step, that's where you're really going to do it. Like, Yeah, and it was like, for me, I remember I was like, starting my third year, I was like, yo, like, I've been here for two and a half years, like, what is going on, all the stuff that I wrote in my application that I wanted to do, like, I'm always like, oh, next semester, next semester, and I'm like, nah, like, it needs to start, like, being, like, a real thing, and like, So it's tough because it's like, I agree, it's like, it's like outreach and showing people what's possible and telling them what's happening is so important. And it is so, it is hard. It is hard to be out there and spending time doing it too and coming up with stuff and then like, you know, I don't know. So yeah, it's, it's, it's tough. But no, I think you're totally right. I think you're totally right. Yeah.  [01:05:32] Diya Gaur: Do you have any questions for me, by the way? I feel like I've been asking you a lot. Yeah,  [01:05:36] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, no. I mean, I do, like, you, so do you feel like, I mean, you've talked about, like, geo bio, but then also geology, like, do you feel like more of a rocky type of person, or more like, Or like, you know, like hard rock stuff or like soft rock. That's, that's what we would say, like, what, yeah, what sorts of things are you, like, kind of interested in potentially, like, I mean, you said like ice sheet things or thermal with ice sheets and stuff, like, I don't know. Mhm.  [01:06:06] Diya Gaur: I feel like there's, okay, this is definitely something I'm going to get a bit more clarity of when I get into college next year. So, I'm a senior this year, but really initially, kind of where that spark came from for me was, yeah, during the pandemic, like, maybe the 9th grade year. It wasn't specifically on a GeoForce trip, but I was hiking in Mount Rainier, and like I said, that first kind of connection I made to it was, I was, you know, drinking the glacier water and kind of like privately wondering what bacteria was like lurking inside of it. And you know, I was just like kind of fascinated by that aspect and from there it's one Google search kind of led into another and that's where my first like fascination in the field of I guess geology specifically and then kind of just like tying that into biology a bit later came from and that was like the first instance where I was like in person seeing this like amazing like geological formation like Mount Rainier. For me, that was like, just like, it was such an awe, like how should I describe it, like just like jaw dropping for me, like just being in front of Mount Rainier, like being in the Cascades and the Ring of Fire. But you know, it wasn't until my 11th grade year, like maybe two years after I went to Mount Rainier, where I actually like studied the geological processes of the Cascades and also the Ring of Fire specifically on my GeoForce trip. And so we learned about, like, all these different types of metamorphic rock, and, you know, we went on these crazy obsidian trails in Washington State and Oregon. And I was like, you know, this is something I would genuinely, like, love doing, like, I definitely see myself doing this in the future. But, you know, at that point in time, I didn't really have any hands on experience when it came to research, and for me, I was like, in order to get, like, a bit more clarity as to if I really want to commit to doing this, I kind of need that more, like Solid clarification that this is what I genuinely enjoy doing and, you know, as time, like, time went on I found a lot of different intersections between, like, geology and biology and, as I mentioned earlier, like, initially when I went into high school I was, like, dead set on going into medicine but, you know, this kind of changed when I really just like, did stuff, like, experienced it with GeoForce, like, we went to, um, the Grand Canyon, we studied all the laws of superposition, and we did all of that, different, like, types of stuff, like, just studying those very specific geological formations and how they came to be and what the real life implications of it are. I mean, that ties into a lot of that research which I ended up doing at UT, especially with the interplanetary, like, exploration, so it's, like, You know, I kind of, like, channeled back off of, like, that glacier stuff, which I learned from the Cascades and Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood, Mount Rainier, and, you know, obviously I had that fascination for glaciers, but what if we took it one step, like, greater, like, what if we kind of thought out of the box and did something which not many people would, at least in GeoForce, really consider, and so I was working on a team with my mentor, who, like, Dr. Benjamin Kiesling, he is a like,  [01:09:11] Maoli Vizcaíno: oh, I know him.  [01:09:13] Diya Gaur: Oh, you know him? Yeah, yeah, yeah,  [01:09:15] Maoli Vizcaíno: I do.  [01:09:15] Diya Gaur: Yes. So he was my mentor and also, uh, my, my Kayla, I forget where, Pasquale, Pasquale. Okay. I hope I'm not saying that wrong, but so I'm kind of name dropping here, but so I was in his lab and I was doing definitely like, More lab based stuff, like, we weren't going out into the field or anything, but I learned how to do, like, Python models, and so, for me, I really like that aspect of, like, coding, so that was the first time I ever, like, coded in Python, and I was like, okay, so there's really multiple connections that you can make, one between geology, two between technology, and three between, like, Biology, which is my initial interest. And so, taking that glacier stuff one step further, I studied the western Antarctic ice sheet, and we were like, kind of seeing these connections between how, like, the southern Mars ice cap kind of had some resemblance to the Antarctic ice sheets, and From there we were trying to see is there really any real world or like real implication that we can find based off of our modeling in Antarctica, like using all these different factors like geothermal heat flux, you know, ice density, like in the depth and so on and I mean, I'm in the International Baccalaureate program and so for me, it's like also taking those things that we're researching to the next level. On a more like global scale like kind of thinking in a more issues type of way so for me it was like okay so what exactly are we getting out of studying the western antarctic ice sheet and then applying it to a different planet like Mars like is that within our tech is that capable are we capable of doing that given the technology that we have and like experience and if we do have like a finding which kind of proves our hypothesis like will it means that there's like some broader implication that we can do as in for like space exploration or like finding human settlement on mars and so we kind of like deduce that maybe if there were like really good like technology technology methods of like extracting some of the h2o from the southern mars ice sheet that it could be possible that I'm not sure how much human life could settle there potentially, but obviously it's like really difficult because, you know, it's a carbon dioxide, um, it's carbon dioxide ice basically, like that's the composition, and 15 percent of it is water, so. In the long run, is that really sustainable, given how much, like, humanity depends on water? I don't really know, but, you know, that was kind of, like, one step in that investigation, and, you know, I learned a lot from that, because, honestly, our initial hypothesis was wrong, and so, I think, you live and you learn, especially, so, for me, like, that was, I wouldn't say it was a humbling moment, but, you know, And a lot of the academic stuff that I've done in high school so far, it's like you kind of give a hypothesis that's kind of like really easy and you kind of know will be correct in the end. So this was my first like time having a hypothesis that was like completely wrong and so we find something completely different out and so for me that's like kind of why I like that more like researchy side and you know, kind of just like studying those like implicated things. Implications and yeah. [01:12:13] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, that sounds like a really, like, yeah, it sounds like the process was really It is, yeah, it's funny, like, it can be fun when you're wrong, because then it's like, what is Well, then what is it then? And like, right. I hear you though. I hear you though. It's like, it's like you can, especially after a while, it's like, you kind of like, you know, have your guesses on where things are going to go. And like, you can be like, you can be like pretty right. And but then it's like, Oh, just kidding. Or they have this other thing or someone's like, Oh, like, but have you considered this? And you're like, Oh no, like, it's always more complicated than you think it is. And like, I don't know. That's fine. But Oh, nice. Yeah. That sounds awesome. That sounds awesome. You've done already a lot of cool things.  [01:12:57] Diya Gaur: Thank you. Yeah, actually, I did have one final question. Like, I don't want to keep you for too long either, because I know we're already at one hour.  Event Planning and Coordination in Academia [01:13:03] Diya Gaur: But so how did you specifically end up like, planning things that just like the geobiology conference at Yale? Like, is there something specifically that kind of drew you into like, That type of side of event planning and coordination. Yeah,  [01:13:16] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, it's, uh, so it's the Northeast GeoBioSymposium. It happens every other year, every other year, every year. I don't remember. And so someone hosts it and it, it was our turn.  [01:13:29] : I  [01:13:30] Maoli Vizcaíno: see. I, um, I'm such a joiner. I love doing things. You know, and I'm like, I am, you know, I'm, I'm more in my saying no era, but this was like, you know, they, they did need a lot of help, like putting on something like that is a really big undertaking, but yeah, so one of my, like, so we, in, in our program, we do like a major project and a minor project. So my minor project advisor, she was like kind of the professor in charge. And so she literally emailed us, she emailed like five of us, she was like, Hey y'all, so you're going to be on the organizing committee for this.  [01:14:05] : Figure out  [01:14:05] Maoli Vizcaíno: what jobs you're taking and put this on. And so it was, yeah, it was, it was definitely big, big learning experience also, like what goes behind the scenes on this sort of thing. So, yeah, it's, but it's like, it's something that like rotates, it rotates through different schools. I went to that as an undergrad cause I was in Massachusetts. So like, I went, um, I went as an undergrad twice and like, I was like, Oh my God, we're back. And I went like my first year here. It was like, or not my first year, my second year, I guess. Cause it was still COVID. Oh my God, TBT, I did this when I was an undergrad and then we were putting it on and I'll probably go again next year. It's like, it's always a cute time cause it's free and it's easy to get around.  [01:14:44] : Yeah.  [01:14:47] Diya Gaur: Did you learn anything like specifically from planning that event? Like maybe not so much on the geological side. [01:14:54] Maoli Vizcaíno: No, just like, it is hard to rent things. Oh yeah, no, for sure, oh my goodness, yeah. I was like, oh, what do you mean, like, like, find, like, those poster board thing, like, to put up posters? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, what do you mean, I was like, how do you find this, like, we literally had, like, shop guys that we had, like, at Yale, who, like, had to make, they had to, like, make something for us. Cause, like, we could not find online how to do it, yeah. And I did, I was in charge of the logo and the merch.  [01:15:22] : Um,  [01:15:23] Maoli Vizcaíno: and that was a whole thing too, like, even, like, printing one, like, little picture on a mug is a whole process.  [01:15:29] Diya Gaur: Oh, yeah, no, for sure.  [01:15:31] Maoli Vizcaíno: I was just like, wow, everything is harder than I ever thought it was gonna be, so that was mostly it. I was like, okay, wow, like, maybe I won't sit there and criticize, like, GSA and AGU no more, cause this is crazy. And we had it. It was like, less than a hundred people go to this thing. It was like, It was like, like, like 80s, 90s something, because it was like, you know, just local schools. I was like, man, okay, okay, I see now. But it was like, nice. It's kind of fun, like, all the different ways you can kind of be, like, behind the scenes and things, or like, being in charge of stuff, like, and it sucks because, you know, obviously, like, grad students do a lot of labor for their departments. It is, it is cool also, because it was like, we did all that for free, um, but  [01:16:12] Diya Gaur: it was still cool. Yeah, I can definitely relate to that.  Final Thoughts and Future Plans [01:16:16] Diya Gaur: Yeah, I mean, kind of going off topic here, but like, I run a non profit called Music Is Medicine, and we operate, like, across the United States, and we had a fundraising concert, like, a huge one last December, and we planned for about 1, 000 people. The logistics of that event were, like, so insane, and it was, like, crazy. Insanely difficult to find a place to even host that and so I can't imagine like for places like AGU they have to rent that huge convention center.  [01:16:44] Maoli Vizcaíno: So many people.  [01:16:45] Diya Gaur: Yeah I don't know if they like print out everyone's research projects or posters but you know that is very tedious and time consuming job for sure so I applaud you. Yeah  [01:16:56] Maoli Vizcaíno: um but yeah no it's cool it's cool it's cool that you're going um I think it's nice that they like let high schoolers let high schoolers go I'm like I think that's important. Yeah.  [01:17:05] Diya Gaur: For sure. They have a very specific program. It's like called the AGU Bright Stars Program. So if you want to promote that to your students as well, then yes. Yeah,  [01:17:13] Maoli Vizcaíno: for sure. Oh, those kids. Yeah, they're a little young. They're a little young. They're not. They're like, I need a more like sophomore, junior.  [01:17:22] Diya Gaur: Oh, okay. Well, that's also a good time to start on  [01:17:26] Maoli Vizcaíno: research. It's all still high school, that's for sure.  [01:17:30] Diya Gaur: Yeah, it's never too early for research, I will say. I wish I started earlier, actually, like, with all these, like, different projects, because senior year is when the stress really  [01:17:39] Maoli Vizcaíno: hits. Yeah, that's real. Like, no, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't want to be like, oh, I'm sure it's, like, all fine. It's like, I don't know, I'm sure. College these days is like way different, and I'm like, not like, I don't know, wasn't that long ago that I was doing it, but still like, I think enough for it to be a pretty different landscape. [01:17:56] Diya Gaur: Mm hmm, yeah, for sure. Do you have any more questions for  [01:18:00] Maoli Vizcaíno: me? Um, no, I mean, I, I, I mean, I do, I, I mean, I do, I'll probably email you, honestly. Yeah, if you don't mind, I'm so, I'm so curious about your color search, and if you feel like you can, I mean, if you're like, if you're working with GeoForce people, I'm sure they're a lot of help, or like, you have college counselors and stuff, but if there's anyone specific you want to talk to, or have questions about, it's a pretty small world. Um, I can, I can, I can probably find some information, or like, I don't know, if there's someone you want to talk to at AGU, or feel like you need. I like introductions or something.  [01:18:34] Diya Gaur: That would be great. Thank you so much. Yeah. I mean, GeoForce, definitely very good program. If you're listening to this podcast, definitely check it out. I would also recommend if you know any people in Texas, like, of course you do because you're from there, but you know, if they want to get involved in the earth sciences, definitely promote GeoForce.  [01:18:51] : Yeah.  [01:18:54] Diya Gaur: And if you want to end up going on like these trips for GeoForce, like you can always like go as a counselor, and you know, you could just get one to pay you for the trips, and you go for free, and so that's like already a really good part, and what you're doing is teaching high school kids, so it's a win win, really. Yeah,  [01:19:10] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, I mean, GeoForce was part of also why I was looking at UT, cause like here at Yale they have the Peabody, and I was like, That'll be a great place to like, work with folks and like, get experience. But also, like, at UTILS, like, oh, like, be so fun to like, you know, mentor high schoolers and stuff, um, there too, so, yeah. [01:19:27] Diya Gaur: I mean, you don't even have to be, like, um, Person of UT to even help out. So yeah, just putting that out there. No,  [01:19:35] Maoli Vizcaíno: that's, that is good to know. That is good to know.  [01:19:38] Diya Gaur: Okay. Well, I don't think I have any more questions for you, but you know, thank you so much for your time. Like this was a really good, like, conversation. And yeah, if any, if you do have any questions for me eventually, Please let me know. I'm always like happy to kind of help out. So yeah. Thank you so much for your time. I know we went over time, but thank  [01:19:58] Maoli Vizcaíno: you. No, yeah, I had a great time. Thank you for reaching out. I know it took me a while to get back. Um, you know, my life is a mess. But yeah, no, I had a nice time talking to you. I think, yeah, you're doing great.  [01:20:08] Diya Gaur: Great. Thank you so much. Yeah, so good luck. I wish you good luck on the rest of your PhD career. I hope all goes well, and maybe I'll hopefully see you at a GU this year.  [01:20:19] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll try and stop by y'all's, you know, y'all's thingy, um. I think that would be fun.

In this episode, we crack open the microscopic world of marine plankton and deep-time data with Yale PhD candidate Maoli Vizcaíno. From dissolving 650-million-year-old Mongolian rocks to measuring microfossils the size of a grain of sand, Maoli takes us through her unexpected journey into geobiology and the surprising intersections between marine ecology, paleoclimate, and... sidewalk hammering? We dive into what foraminifera can tell us about ancient oceans, how a tedious lab job turned into a passion for research, and why feedback loops and frozen Earths might just blow your mind. Whether you're team fieldwork, team lab coat, or just curious how life and rock shape each other, this episode will most definitely rock your worldview —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu —————— Transcript Introduction and Guest Introduction [00:00:00] Diya Gaur: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Art of Subduction. My name is Diya Gore, and today I'm here with  [00:00:19] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, Maoli Vizcaíno.  [00:00:22] Diya Gaur: So, Maoli is a PhD candidate at Yale University, and she's currently Do you want to give an explanation of what exactly you do?  [00:00:31] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes. Um, I am a fourth year PhD candidate here, um, at Yale. I study foraminifera, which are marine plankton, and a bit of paleocenography. Slash, I guess, kind of more modern these days, also modern like, like marine ecology.  [00:00:51] Diya Gaur: Yeah. That's amazing.  Maoli's Journey into Marine Ecology [00:00:53] Diya Gaur: So my first question is like, how did you get into this? This is like such a niche and like fascinating field. So is there a certain experience or like? You know, just any event that kind of led you into what you do now. [00:01:05] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes, um, yeah, so I had, um, this was not a life dream of mine. I did not grow up dreaming of the ocean, aside from, I feel like, really regular, like, yeah, let's go to the beach, because it's vacation vibes. Um, I, um, you know, I went to college, um, I got into college. I went to college. That was like, kind of the goal was ultimately college. And then I got there and I was like, oh, I need to, uh, figure out what I'm doing here. Exactly. So I took a bunch of intro classes as one does, and my freshman year, one of my professors would advertise. job opportunities at the end of her class.  First Research Experience [00:01:45] Maoli Vizcaíno: And, um, I applied, I hated my, oh, uh, this was my sophomore year actually, my sophomore fall. So I hated my current job. Um, so I applied to work in her lab and I was just doing sample prep. So it was like, she had these rocks and I worked in the lab to, to solve them and pick out microfossils. Yeah. So I literally was just doing that as a job for like almost a year. And then I got a fellowship. a research fellowship and kept doing it like more seriously. And so I think, um, not to, you know, start with the life lessons, you know, two minutes into the recording, but like, you really don't, there are so many people who are so amazing and know what they want to do their whole life and are super dedicated to it. And that's awesome. Um, and also though, you don't have to. I didn't. And even my job, my first like research job, I got it because I was just working in the lab. She just needed someone to do the really tedious stuff. And I was like, I'm getting paid 15 an hour. I'm from Texas, which I mentioned to you before. So moving from Texas to Massachusetts, I was like, man, um, wow, 15 an hour, like I'll dissolve as many rocks as you want me to. So. Yeah, anyway, I didn't know what I wanted to do and that job opportunity was literally just looking for a job and I ended up becoming more interested and working on that. And yeah, and so  [00:03:07] Maoli Vizcaíno: that first project really kind of started me on microfossils specifically. And it was in my master's where I started studying the forams themselves and I've been doing that ever since. [00:03:20] Diya Gaur: That's really interesting.  Detailed Lab Work [00:03:21] Diya Gaur: What was it that you initially did in the lab? Like, what was the more tedious stuff that you were just mentioning? Yeah. Sounds kind of fascinating, but Yeah,  [00:03:29] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, um, it was, it was cool. It was, it was tedious, but it was cool. There was, like, enough steps to where it didn't feel like I was, like, you know, copy paste, copy paste, or whatever. It was like, I had these rocks that she gave me, um, from the field. Um, her colleagues went to Mongolia to get these rocks. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yes. And so I would take them, I would wrap them in foil and squish them with a hammer. I would just like go out on the sidewalk and just smash them. And then I would put the pieces into like just a little plastic container and, um, dissolve them in acid for like however long it takes. It took sometimes, it was like a couple days, sometimes it was a bit longer, or I'd like have to increase the concentration. And so once they were dissolved, then I would like wash the sediment. So, um, it's just like the really classic, like it all settles to the bottom. So you pour off and then like do the water on top. And I had to do that several times. And then after that, I would dry them. So pour off as much water as I could and then just leave them to dry. Um, and then let's see, what did I do? Put them in, I would put them in like little like vials or whatever, and then put them on slides and then use a pipette to take out, like in water, to take out what I thought were fossils and put them on little slide thingies. [00:04:54] Diya Gaur: Oh, wow, whoa, that's really cool actually, wait, that's really cool. So wait, how, I just can't imagine, like, those mussels must be really tiny then, right? Yeah,  [00:05:04] Maoli Vizcaíno: really small. Gosh, I, I should, I should know. It's kind of a while ago. Um, I should remember, but yes, very small. Um, we were measuring them in microns. I'd say sub 250. Sub 250.  [00:05:20] Diya Gaur: Wow, okay, so those are really tiny then. Yeah, so was it like specifically or like just only the rock from Mongolia, or have you also like seen like rocks from other places, or?  [00:05:32] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so these ones, um, were from Mongolia specifically because of the age, so what we were trying to do was You know, find them to talk. Oh gosh. Um, so these rocks were like 650 million years old. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so they're in Mongolia is a great place to find rocks of this age. And yeah, so those were like really, really old. Really old fossils. Um, I, you know, through time have also moved more forward in time. Like my master's fossils were from the ocean. So that was like drill core sediments, completely different process. They're not rocks. Um, so that's, that's great. Still kind of method of like picking out the specific ones you want, except with like, uh, they're like the fossils themselves are like little grains of sand. Um, cause these plankton, they make shells. And so then when they die, the shells sink to the sea floor and it's just like sand. But they have specific shapes for each species. So you will know which one to pick, but they're so small. So you take a paintbrush, the smallest one you can, and sometimes you have to like even chop a lot of the little bristles off or whatever. And then you dip that in water. And then you like just poke it, and then you put it on a slide, and the water acts as like an adhesive that sticks to it.  [00:06:57] Diya Gaur: Oh, interesting. Okay.  Interdisciplinary Nature of Geology [00:06:59] Diya Gaur: So you're kind of like going both into like, I guess the more biological and like historical aspects of it? That's pretty interesting, honestly, like, I really love that intersection between geology and biology. You know, I think I mentioned this a bit earlier, but I want to do something related to geobiology as a concentration, or like maybe just do undergrad research in the field, but you know, it's a new and like, or relatively new and emerging field, but you know, there's just so many possibilities with it, and I've mentioned this like quite a few times before on this podcast as well, like not many people understand that there's so many intersections between geology and like all these different sciences, and so it's really cool actually like You know, I think, um, I had this mentor who was in my, like, JJ Pickle research group at UT Austin, and, you know, he went on this trip to Antarctica, and he was telling me that he had this, like, field camp with, like, a bunch of like chemists, biologists, and like all these different types of people. I'm like, whoa, that's so cool. Like, it's so interdisciplinary. I'm like, yeah, love that. So would you say like, you know, that more interdisciplinary side is like kind of what you went into the field like looking for? Or was there something specifically that stuck out to you about geology?  [00:08:15] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, actually, this, yes, I agree. That was really what drew me in as well. I feel like, you know, as a fellow Texan, you know, I'm sure that You know, you're extremely aware of like oil and gas and like that, that like lens for earth science, I think, um, going to college and I took, you know, like my intro geo class, um, it was called the co evolution of earth and life. And I remember thinking it was so awesome, first of all, to like, learn about something and literally see it, see it happening outside. Mm hmm. You know, we, we, we know, we know in our heads, like, as much as we love to complain in school, you know, that, um, the things you learn in school are useful in like, some ways, you know, and it's like, okay, like, literal, these like, literal algebra equations are irritating, but I can kind of get it. But it was like so obvious with the geology. I would learn about what rocks are, and then I would go outside and be like, Oh, I just learned what a granite was. For real, for real, you know, not just like I really loved that. And in that class specifically, um, I remember being like just so blown away by like just feedback loops. We had a lesson on feedback loops, and this was actually related to my initial, like, my project in undergrad, which was during Snowball Earth. Transcribed Which, um, I don't know if you're familiar with, but, you know, in the Neoproterozoic, which is a very long time ago, the earth froze over and there has been a lot of research about was it, you know, like a hard snowball, was it kind of slushy, but still, it was still, we know it was cold. Um, and my professor explaining how that would happen, this like runaway feedback loop of like, you know, it being cold and there's like ice and ice. is light colored, snow and ice is light colored, so it will reflect sunlight and warmth. So that helps more ice grow and reflect more, reflect more light and warmth and et cetera and onward and it'll just like keep going. And, um, this was obviously a very extreme example if like the whole earth is frozen, but that really blew my mind. And I, and I liked the idea of like things being so connected and that, and that was even like with less of a focus on, on life itself. Um. And then, but I was also doing, you know, later on research on like life during that time and what that was, um, and what that could be like. Um, so yeah, I don't know. It is, it is really nice. I really, that was something that really spoke to me for sure. I'm like, yeah, we are all, you know, in this together. Um, and also it's, you know, it is comforting too. I'm like, you know.  [00:10:55] Diya Gaur: Right.  Interest in Space and Geobiology [00:10:55] Diya Gaur: Yeah, have you, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but I was just gonna ask, um, have you like maybe thought of like doing research that's kind of more interplanetary, like maybe how these Earth applications that we're kind of using now, like the models, and you know, just what we know about Earth and applying that onto other planets, like have you done research like that in the past, or do you find yourself interested? You've been pursuing that in the future. Yeah, um, no,  [00:11:21] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, I, I, I, it's been, it's been long enough that it's like, I do have, like, I do have, like, my strong, like, you know, silly opinions about, like, other fields and subfields, like, you know, we love to joke around. I was just joking with my friends today. I was like, Geochemists, like, can we trust them? I don't know, you know, um, all in jest, of course, but, um, in terms of space, I don't, yeah, I don't really have much interest in, like, space or other planets. Um, I feel pretty full up on, like, the ocean. Um, I understand why people like it, for sure, um, but I don't. That's not something that calls to me.  [00:11:58] Diya Gaur: Yeah, no, the reason why I asked that actually is because so this is going back to the UT Austin research I did, but I did, um, a one week like research kind of like Python modeling about like the ice sheets in Antarctica and you know, It's not exactly, like, biology related, but, you know, what I did was I took the geothermal heat flux of this, like, ice sheets that we're seeing, and so, like, on the topic of, like, glaciers and, like, ice stuff, I was like, hmm, that's really interesting, so, you know, this is, like, me making a lot of different connections to the same topic, but, you know, 2021, I went on this hike to Mount Rainier, and I, really funny story, but, Only brought one water one bottle of water up all the way to the top of like the hiking trail And so I realized like halfway that oh my god, my like water bottles like completely over But you know lucky for me. I see that stream of Glacier water flowing down the hiking trail And so I take my water bottle and scoop it up all the water and put it in there and then I drink it I'm like Wow, this is some of the best tasting water I've ever had in my life. But for me, that's kind of where geology sparks. It's like the most random moment, but I was like, kind of sitting there and I was like, okay, so I'm drinking this glacier water, but what is the bacteria that might be in here? Like, you know, this is obviously from a glacier, like it's going to be fresh. But you know, what if there's like some Hidden bacteria or like disease that is like ancient and like oh my goodness like I would love to learn more about this and so that's where my initial interest for you know that glacier type of stuff and like water based stuff was and then you know fast forward like three years later I'm like in a lab at UT Austin and I'm trying to see how geothermal heat flux has been kind of Changing what we know about the Antarctic and also the Western no, Southern Antarctic wait a Okay, no, hold on. I'm all over the place. Western Antarctic ice sheet, so I specifically studied that, and then I translated it into the Southern, um, Mars ice cap. And so what exactly I was trying to find there was if the geothermal heat flux could have contributed to some things like, you know, how water is kind of like, melt, or how the ice melts into water, and then kind of applying that onto Mars through Python modeling and seeing if They have some type of heat flux in their, um, southern Mars ice cap, and then also kind of seeing if there's potential for water there. And so, you know, that's kind of where geobiology kind of tied in for me. I was like, you know, so we want to do more interplanetary exploration, and you know, one major thing that we need to sustain life is water, and so For me, I find that intersection really interesting, like, fascinating, because one, we just need water to survive, but we also see all of these companies like SpaceX, like, NASA, they're trying to, like, get out there and they're like, yes, we need to find another place other than Earth that humans can sustain life on, and I'm like, yes, amazing, interesting, love that. Um, yeah, that's kind of my story, and that's kind of why I asked that question, but, yeah. Yeah.  [00:15:02] Maoli Vizcaíno: No, it's  [00:15:03] Diya Gaur: Yeah, what are your thoughts?  [00:15:04] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, no, I think, yeah, space, I think there's lots of, um, lots of reasons to be interested in space. I feel for space people, because it's like, it can be kind of hard to justify if you're not like doing that sort of like, specifically like, life on Mars or whatever, you know, like, I know some folks who's just study, like, it's more like Things just to know it, than like, because, you know, this is gonna be the next big thing for humans, whatever, you know. Um, and yeah, I mean, I have a lot of respect for space people. I think it's a lot, you know, a lot of, you know, math and physics that like, Right. Yeah, that I'm like, I don't, I don't think that's something I could do. And yeah, spending a lot of time working on something that you can't, you know, No, you know, like you are like witness or whatever. I don't know. Like that was something I struggled with, with my things from just like deep time, you know. And then in my master's, I did work more like a hundred thousand years ago, 170, 000 years ago. I was like, yeah, you know,  [00:16:04] Maoli Vizcaíno: that's still like, that's still old. Um, but it seems a little more real versus now it's like my main data set that I've been working on here is still there. Like, 2008 to 2020, you know, I'm like, yeah, that definitely happened, like, um, but yeah, so I think it takes, I think it takes a lot of passion to work on something that is so hard to literally grasp.  [00:16:28] Diya Gaur: Right. Conceptual stuff is really difficult for me too, but yeah, for sure.  Data Processing in Marine Ecology [00:16:33] Diya Gaur: I mean, Do you do any, like, data processing in your lab specifically, and what does that normally look like, that data processing that you do? [00:16:41] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, yeah, I'm, uh, yes, I'm very, um, computer based, um, especially at this stage. I mostly, I use R. A lot to make, um, you know, make my little figures and like, do like, my analyses and things. Um, I have, you know, a bunch of, you know, Excel documents that I have the same data in, in different, 15 different ways. Right. Let's see. It's like, it's really, it's really wild how, um, how not, um, How to not technologically advance everything I'm doing. Like, I use this, like, really nice microphoto that takes extremely high res pictures. Like, each, each of these pictures is, like, almost a whole gigabyte. of like just like slides, um, that have like the forums on them, which I use to, you know, look at them and for my other projects that I'm doing, I'm going to be like measuring them. So, um, you know, high res photos for that. Um, yeah, but honestly, it's just a lot of like computer stuff. Like my data set is really just one big Excel sheet. And I'm just, I'm just fiddling with it. Like, um, but it's nice. I really enjoy the flexibility, um, of where, like, where I can work. I can be like, I don't feel like being here. Like, I'm just going to be like just me and my computer against the world. And yeah. And then when I'm in the lab, I'm taking pictures, but I'm almost done with that now, and so then I'll be able  [00:18:06] Diya Gaur: to  [00:18:07] Maoli Vizcaíno: be on the computer. Mhm.  [00:18:10] Diya Gaur: So what's the step by step process for that? So you did mention like taking photos, but do you have to like upload that into your like computer? Like how exactly does it work?  [00:18:18] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so um, the uh, microscope is connected to a computer, so I take them off with a jump drive, um, once I take the photos, jump drive onto my computer. And there I use ImageJ, which I don't know if you're familiar, but it is It is extremely, like, this is not, like, I'm pretty sure you could download it for free online. Um, but it's like a program for images, ImageJ. Um, and I use it, and like, you can use it as a, like a ruler, essentially. And so, like, I have my scale bar on it, so then I just literally, like, click and I draw a line, and I tell ImageJ how long that line is, using the scale bar. And then I just use my computer to point and click. From one end to the other and measure what I'm trying to do, and it will log it for me and then I export that into a CSV file and, and then analysis, let's go. Um, so yeah, it's, it's really, it's really, you know, it's really straightforward and a lot of like, What we do in my field is that way. Like, you know, like, the, the, um, what's the word? Like, the paintbrushing, you know, you use that to pick. If you get really good, um, you can just use a clicker. Like, you don't even have to pick out the species anymore, you just look. That was me in my masters, I was just like looking in my microscope, clicking the number that I saw and then writing that number down. Regular light microscopes, you know, they're small, they're like grains of sand, but you can see that in a regular light microscope. For some, some projects, someone might want to do CT scanning, like one of my friends is trying to look at pore size, and that can, that can get a little more intense. Um, if you're a geochemist, you can like, You might want to like dissolve them or like, you know, take measurements of like their isotopic signatures in the shells, things like that. Um, but you know, it's, yeah, it's a lot of like people obviously like of all like ages and, and especially like, you know, as young as like people around my age. And as old as, like, extremely, like, wow, you're not retired yet. So, you know, there's lots of different ways to do stuff to kind of accommodate everybody. Mm hmm.  [00:20:26] Diya Gaur: Yeah, for sure. No, like, two things, actually. So, one, I'm just thinking of, like, all of this data processing must need, like, this huge, like, supercomputer, right? Like, do you guys have that on campus at Yale? Like, I assume that you guys do, because this is, like, terabytes of information that you guys have to, kind of, File and sort through, so. [00:20:44] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes, there is a high powered computing. Um, depart, not department, whatever, um, office or whatever at Yale. And some of my friends use the clusters, especially if they're running like long term models. Um, I do not, my dataset is big, um, but it is workable. I did have to buy a new laptop that was, I was like, what's the highest, you know, I have my like one terabyte, like high Ram, whatever that I got, but also Mac, because I'm a huge. I'm, I'm trapped in the Mac loop.  [00:21:15] Diya Gaur: Apple ecosystem  [00:21:17] Maoli Vizcaíno: really got me. So it is a Mac, um, which, you know, is a, is a hot take for me to have, but I, I, I'm, the things I'm doing is definitely fine for that. Um, but yeah, so that's, yes, there is high power computing. Some people go, go crazy on that. Actually, this guy in our last year, he graduated very famously had the title of like the highest, like. user of the cluster because he did like these huge like models of like mantle physics or something i don't know like geophysics and all he did was on like Modeling stuff on his computer, he like, very fan it was, it was some, some insane stats on his carbon footprint from just that. Wow! So yeah, no, it really is something. Oh yeah,  [00:22:06] Diya Gaur: that's very interesting, yeah, no for sure. And also you did mention retired, retired people, and on that note, I was also gonna say that There's a couple of people that I have interviewed for my podcast as well, and these people are like well into their like late 70s, early 80s, and I'm asking them, so why exactly are you still doing geology? And they're like, you know, I just love going out in the field, and a lot of the times what I've heard from many of these older people is that I can count more of the countries that I've, um, no, I can tell you all of the countries that I haven't been to rather than the ones that I have been to. That's really interesting, and also I feel like that's a really good point to like, love geology, just because of like, the travel that's involved. And, you know, I know this kind of varies on de varies on what exactly you're doing in geology, if you're doing more field based stuff, or more lab based stuff. Um, but I think that aspect is really fascinating, like, working with stuff from all across the world, really, because that's what the Earth entails. Field Work vs. Lab Work [00:23:06] Diya Gaur: So, I mean, do you go into the field very often, or do you just, like, kind of do work in the lab and more of the processing stuff behind the scenes?  [00:23:16] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so I do not go into the fields, that was not something I did. I was interested in, um, when I was going in telling my professor about that too, like I did field camp in college because I was like, you know, if I want to go to grad school, it's probably better to kind of have that out of the way if needed. Luckily it hasn't been needed. Um, in my fields, our version of field work is probably a lot more going on boats, like going on research cruises. And those are very, you know, people always love to go on those very like prestigious to get on one as well. Like. And it's like what you were mentioning earlier with like a boat will have like one micropaleontologist, one sedimentologist, you know, like one, and it's like, you know, people there, you're like representing like your whole field on this boat, you know, and you have a job to make this work. And it's like a really beautiful, like little ecosystem on there. Um, I personally never had any interest in being on a boat for, you know, many weeks with a lot of like pressure. They're all very expensive. People will work, like you're, you work 12 hours and then you're off 12 hours and you work and it's like, It all really matters. And, and, you know, that sort of purpose is extremely inspiring to some people. I would fold under that pressure. Um, and also I do know that I get very seasick, which, you know, but I'm like,  [00:24:35] Maoli Vizcaíno: I, I have gone on boats and it's never, but yeah. Um, for me, my, the bulk of my travel comes from conferences and workshops. And then also, um, gosh, like there's, there's all sorts of reasons. I think there's something for everyone. Um, again, for, you know, I don't know if the masses PSA, it's like, like hiking and camping are not your jam, which they're not. I didn't grow up doing that. And, you know, now I, You know, um, there's still, you know, there's still places for you. Like I've, I've done so many like great things. Like I've done workshops in, um, in the UK and in Germany. I've gone to conferences in Italy and various places here in the U. S. as well. Um, I went to Bermuda my first year. Um, I went to go, like, just learn how to do this method that she was trying to do for one of her experiments and to bring back some of our equipment that was left there before the pandemic because we had some, you know, some back and forth. Our lab things over there. Um, I've gotten to do a lot of really cool things. And yeah, so I think, I think that's a really nice, um, definitely nice perk. I think, you know, also all the, all the amazing people that you meet, it is a kind of, in my opinion, slash others as well, probably, uh, uh, not a low point, a slightly negative point, how, like, how much, like, in the academic path, you're expected to do something, like, really different at each stage, like, how people say, like, don't stay at the same institution for, you know, For grad school that you were in undergrad, or your postdoc, all this stuff, so like, you have to move around so much, and like, that is really hard, um, but it, it does mean it's like, I know people all over the place as well, from people who like, were in my lab, um, as a postdoc and undergrad student, who are like, somewhere else now, or for me, like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, And again, I'm a fourth year PhD student, like I am still training and I have been a part of four different institutions. My undergrad, my master's, I did a year working as a research assistant after my master's, and then like now at Yale. And from that alone, like I know people all over the place. And you know, the opportunity to do work where other people are, is there as well, like, I've had invitations to go, you know, visit friends in the UK to collaborate on some stuff. Um, uh, I have, my advisor, like, when I first got in was like, are you interested in, you know, going to California, maybe, and like, working on stuff? Like over there and like Catalina and stuff and you know, there, there's, there's always if there's one thing another scientist is going to do is find a reason to travel for sure. Um, so even if you're not like out in the fields that happens and like, yeah, and I think the older folks, that's the thing too. Um, I do think that the fields now it's like, there's definitely, you know, more coming to grips with like, um, what they call like parachute science, I think. Like, coming in to do research or take samples and go somewhere else, it's like, you know, you're expected to, you know, collaborate with people from the place that you're going, you know, it's like, I don't need to be, you never need to be the specific person studying something, you know. Right. And I think that's a really nice thing, too, and I think it'll be, like, really beneficial to, like, you know, helping every, like, the whole field become more equitable. It's, like, you're going and you're bringing in folks from there, not just as, as, as techs or as, like, you know, guides or whatever, but, like, being a part of the research project, you know, there's gonna be more experts on the place than you. [00:28:19] Diya Gaur: Right, yeah.  Academic Path and Moving Around [00:28:20] Diya Gaur: So, why do they say that you shouldn't, like, stay in one institution? Like, why should you, like, be moving around specifically?  [00:28:27] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, um, I think it goes to, um, one, like, showing, you know, that you can, like, other people, like, want you. It's expanding your network, expanding, yeah, the, the, the people who know you, everything, no matter what you're doing in life. Yeah. is about connection.  [00:28:50] Diya Gaur: Connection is right. It's about who you know  [00:28:51] Maoli Vizcaíno: and who you know and can help who other people knows or whatever, wherever you're at. It shows like people, like, I don't know, I think that part of it is definitely, this is like a lot more of my interpretation, is like people, I think there is a lot of like still expectation of, of suffering in the fields in all sorts of ways. Like it is, it is. Like, my first project was with data that someone else gathered and didn't have to work with,  [00:29:20] Maoli Vizcaíno: you know, and I'm like, that is still valid, you know, and that, you know, that has, you know, people have opinions on that, or people constantly going to the same place to collect their own data and doing analysis, and I'm like, yo, like, Things would go so much faster, like, you don't have to start at point zero every time something happened, you know? But it's the same thing, another way of suffering too, it's like, like, the, if you didn't have to work so hard for it, and that's part of it too, it's like, oh, you stayed comfortable, you know, you stayed with all these people you knew in a place that you had been for four years, like, what's that about? Like, you know, um, and like, they say it's like for you, you know, for your growth, you know, it's like, you spend time here to learn stuff, you'll learn new stuff, You go somewhere else, that'll be different people to learn, different methods to learn, like, out there. But yeah, I mean, it's a lot. It sucks. Um, um, yeah, my undergrad was in Massachusetts. That was, that was on purpose. I wanted to be as far away from Texas as possible. I was definitely like, uh, I need to leave right now, um, when high school is over. So that was great. But then, um, Uh, my master's it was hard to go to because it was in Delaware and my sister was in Brooklyn and I was like, I don't want to be this far from you, but it was still, it was three, three hours trip, you know, still made it work for the, but then I was a research assistant in California and I was like, this sucks. I was like, there's nothing out here. I don't have any family in California. Also have any friends. Cause I was in the Bay area and not like, You know, LA or something. Like, I didn't know I'd be there and it was fine. I was like, it's just one year. I was like, uh, you know, whatever. I'm 20, I'm 24. Like, I'm just going to do some crazy early 20s shit. Oh, excuse me. I'm going to do some crazy early 20s things and just go across the country with my 6, 000. For no reason. It was also a job at Stanford and I was like, I was not getting any jobs. So I was like, let me go be a research assistant at Stanford and see if people start taking me seriously. Um, so, but yeah, so that was horrible. And then the pandemic happened. And so I was like, I was like, there's no way if something else happens, I'm going to be this far from my family, unable to get to them. So then when I was applying to. PhD programs. I was like, bet I'm going to the Northeast or I'm staying in Texas. So I actually applied to UT Austin. And in the end, I was deciding between Yale and UT Austin. I really know. Um, and it was like a, it was down to the wire. I was just like, okay, you gotta make a choice. And I ended up being close to my sister. And yeah, so I don't, I don't, gosh, I don't remember what I started saying. Um, oh, oh, it was like why people tell you to do that. It's like, it worked out for me to where I did like all these things and it like, it wasn't this like huge sacrifice or the huge like, I need to stay in this place, but I'm being pushed to do something else. At every point I was kind of like, I don't really know what I'm doing, so it's fine. But I know that now, like, after this, like, I have very strong opinions about where I want to be. Really hard to see, like, you know, postdocs that you know and love, they're in your lab for a couple years, and then they just have to go somewhere randomly. I'm like, why? Like, anyway, I don't know. All I have to say is that I'm like, Yes, there's like, benefits to moving around, knowing people, but I'm like, there's also so many benefits to not, and like, there's already so much credibility as an academic, like, come  [00:32:34] Diya Gaur: on, like, come  [00:32:34] Maoli Vizcaíno: on. Anyway, I don't know.  [00:32:37] Diya Gaur: No, I actually totally agree with that sentiment, like, for me, I I wouldn't mind staying in state, but at the same time, going out of state seems really intriguing to me, because one thing is like, I feel like when you kind of go out of state for, at least under God, it's more like you're getting out of your comfort zone, like you're getting a bit more comfortable with like, being uncomfortable, so it's like, for me, I've like, Applied to seven different schools so far, and I think only one of those are in Texas, and that one's UT Austin. But, you know, especially with geology, there's so many places that you can take it as an undergrad. Like, I know University of Oregon is a really good school for geology. I know Even in Hawaii, they have really good schools if you want to study like the volcanoes or just like the landscape there. And also UMass Amherst is a really good school for geology as well. So there's like many different options and you know, we also have like Colorado School of Mines and all those different options and that's one thing I really love about geology is that you have so much flexibility where we're with where you want to go. Even end up wanting to go study something like more specific you can always like apply international like There's not a lack of geology programs But what there is a lack in is just overall like I will say maybe just outreach I don't think many people understand that geology is more than rocks like when I tell someone who's Not knowing anything about like the geosciences in general, I tell them, Oh, I want to major in geology as an undergrad, and they're like, oh you want to study rocks? I'm like, no, it's not just rocks, oh my goodness. So I feel like, I think the branding of geology matters a lot too, and so I feel like if we kind of Branded geology to be a bit more Reflective of what it is as a field. It'll get a lot more interest, especially in the younger people Because like like I said before what many people don't realize about geology is how interdisciplinary it is A lot of people choose like to opt for the environmental sciences or you know something along those lines But you know not many people like realize that there's just so many different connections you can make like With practically anything, like, the Earth relates to almost everything in one way or another, and so it influences a lot of different things, like, if you want to study people, you can obviously go into something which studies both, like, how the environment, like, or just, like, the overall geology of a place affects, like, human behavior, there's just so many ways that you can take it, and, you know, I think that's a really good point, and, yeah. [00:35:06] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, no, I You're totally right. And I think it's, um, you're also right. And like your choices and stuff and everything you said about that. I think I am more a, I'd say in terms of like, oh, go out there and do it. Um, you know, and like, this is something that's like good for you and whatever. I'm definitely team like go away for college. Um, I think that like, you know, cause like coming back, um, I do think, you know, like early twenties, like, yeah. You are, like, flexible and, like, having that sort of silly, goofy experience. Right. Something that I'm like, you know, did I hate it? Did I hate California so much? Yes. But, um, was it, like, is it such a funny thing for me to randomly drop, like, lore to people? Like, oh, yeah, when I was in California for nine months, they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, isn't that crazy? And I have, actually, after this, I'm about to Zoom with a couple friends from California. Oh, sweet. Some of my favorite people are still over there. Um, but anyway, but yeah, so I'm like, you know, team that. Um, I think you're right about geology as well. And UMass Amherst, I went to Williams. So, um, the Western Mass vibe, always down, always down. Try to make people do that. No, right, for sure. But yeah, no, it's um, I don't know. I think that It's, it's good, it's good advice in theory, but it gets used a lot. Um, you know, you make kind of people feel like they have to do this stuff that is like, really  [00:36:30] Diya Gaur: good. Right, right. Yeah. 

Jennifer Peña, former GeoForce student and now an outreach coordinator, gives us the inside scoop on how the program has evolved, and why it’s still rocking today. From the days of quizzes galore to the current project-based fun, Jennifer shares how GeoForce has learned to keep things fresh, exciting, and way less stressful. She walks us through the 10th-grade academy, where students build canyons out of Play-Doh (yep, you read that right) and get up close with geology in places like Antelope Canyon and the Grand Canyon while using the scientific methods! —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu —————— Transcript GeoForce Program Evolution [00:26:01] Diya Gaur: So, also, like, As a previous GeoForce student yourself and now like an outreach coordinator for GeoForce, how do you think like the program has like kind of changed from then versus now?  [00:26:13] Jennifer Peña: I feel like then, also just in the way kind of society was then whenever I was doing it, especially on things like test taking, quiz taking, all of that sort of thing. Whenever I was in the program, every single day we had quizzes. So at the end of every single academy, we would have a quiz, and at the end, like on that last day, we would have a final. It was intense! It was very much Even though, in all honesty, do I think GeoForce would have kicked out half of the kids? No. Do I also think half of the kids would be failing the GeoForce test? No. We were all nerds, and we were all very, like, worried and anxious people. Or little kids. So, I think we were fine. But it was still, it made us very anxious a little bit, and so seeing now this change to more so a project based, um, curriculum is really great, just because it then gives you guys the tools to work together as teams when it's something like the 9th grade, so now we do a 9th grade project at the end of it, where they work as, like, counselor groups or mini counselor groups, So that's really great, or in things like the 10th grade, wherever you guys do a project, and you do, you model a canyon by yourself, so it gives you that create, creativity, and that space to do what, what you would like to do, but also connect it to education, and connect it to what you've been learning throughout the week. So to see that change has been really great. Also, I I really like the 12th grade now, even though I will say whenever I was doing the 12th grade, it being the first one in Austin. And not, um, D. C., which it used to be. It was, it was sad, you know? They had been promising us, oh, on your last year, you're gonna go to Washington, D. C., and it'll be really fun. And at that point, we had traveled every single year, because whenever I was doing the program, the ninth grade was in Florida. And so we had been traveling every single year, so this last year being in Austin was kind of, kind of a downer a little bit for some of us. Um, but being in Austin then made us kind of want to go to UT and realize how interesting it is. So that was a really good change that they made whenever I was in the program. But the fact that now we give you guys these, like, tangible skills at the end of it, and really want you to gain something from GeoForce, whether it be geology or not, is really cool. Um, so just these STEM kind of points and these really good skills that you can use regardless of if you go to the Jackson School or if you study geology. I've seen that change in the program and I've really, really enjoyed it.  [00:29:08] Diya Gaur: That is amazing.  10th Grade Academy Highlights [00:29:11] Diya Gaur: So you did mention the 10th grade, like, canyon modeling project, we, I remember doing that as well, where we had, like, the different colors of play doh, and we put it all together, and then we got judged on how good it was, but on that note, what exactly happens, for our listeners, what exactly happens on the GeoForce 10th grade academy, if you could give us, like, a rundown over the You know, ooh, what makes Arizona, like, Nevada and Utah so special in studying geology? Yeah,  [00:29:41] Jennifer Peña: so, the 10th grade is our American Southwest Academy. So, this is, um, most students second year in the program. So, and it'll be the summer before you begin your 10th grade year in high school. And what we do is we start off going to Utah, we hit up Zion and Bryce Canyon now, which are beautiful, and we talk We then start bringing up this staircase, so the staircase of the rock layers that we are going to be seeing throughout the week. And what the 10th grade really is overall is telling you about geologic time. And which you can really see in the Grand Canyon, which we end up going to. Um, the next day after that, we go to Antelope Canyon and then Glen Canyon Dam. At Glen Canyon Dam, we do talk a little bit about hydropower and how that can be used in general. And also, we have this really fun thing called the Dam Debate. Where we give students each a little kind of role that they're playing, so if they're a farmer, if they live upstream of the dam or downstream of the dam, and then they learn about what these people are going through. As, like, somebody is pitching a dam in their area, and then we have this city hall meeting, which is the dam debate, where students come up, and they, as their role, will explain whether they are for or against the dam, and why. And so that's really cool, because then it gets students thinking about that real world effect of what we're seeing. Afterwards, we then go to horseshoe bandit night, and then the next day, we start off. Our first our two days at the Grand Canyon, which, like I was saying, is kind of this talk about geologic time and the laws, like Steno's laws, so like laws of superposition, laws of law of unconformities, um, things like that. Then, afterwards, we end up going to Flagstaff, and we do Lowell Observatory at night, and then Barringer Meteor Crater at night. And those two are then connecting, um, what we've seen to space, and we do planetary geology a little bit. So then we talk about Mars, and luckily, like we were talking about a little bit earlier, the Jackson School has a lot of different people. There are so many people at the Jackson School who study Mars, and who, who are really into planetary geology. And usually they are the people who then become instructors for our 10th grade. So they have a really nice time leading that last few days because of their knowledge and their background through it. Um, then at the end, this all comes together in the final project where we ask y'all to create a canyon using all the laws and everything you've seen throughout the week. Um, so you have to have five units, I believe, so that's five layers of rock. Um, explain how you know what time each is, have an unconformity, which means a missing rock layer there in the middle somewhere, and explain, hey, why do you know it's an unconformity? Just by looking at it, or do you have to look at fossils in the rock and see, like, oh, the fossils, these fossils are this, this old, these fossils we know are this old, that means there's this much gap in time between these two rocks. So we have y'all talk about that, and then kind of think about, okay, could this canyon that I've created be able to exist on Mars? Based on what we know. So that's kind of, um, a thing of where, okay, if you said that your canyon, yeah, you could tell the time in your canyon because of fossils, then are there fossils on Mars? And then you kind of have those moments where you think about it. And so we really like that because then students, one, get to be creative because they get to create whatever canyon they want. They can, like Dio was saying, make it out of Play Doh, shape it however they want. They get to name their layers however they want. But then also, you have to be thinking about it, so it has to make some type of sense. So we, they make those connections during it, and it's really cool to then see the students who maybe you thought weren't, were not paying attention and did not care, but they have these really cool layers, and they do have an uncomfortably, and it makes sense, and they actually are getting it all together, or throughout the making of the canyon, they're asking these very, These very good questions that even you're, even myself, when I think back. I'm like, I don't think I would have asked those questions in my 10th grade trip, like,  [00:34:32] : I,  [00:34:33] Jennifer Peña: those questions would have gone right over me, so it's really cool to see, and that's the whole 10th grade that then sets us up for the 11th grade. The year later. Mhm.  [00:34:46] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and I think that's so important too, because today, like, I don't really see many opportunities for high school students to learn geology, and that's kind of one of my motivations for making this podcast, but just the fact that GeoForce is able to provide all of these research mentors and just give their experiences out and show that, hey, this is how stuff on Mars and the moon works, I think it's super cool. Like, me personally, I remember Miss Stephanie Suarez, she was on my 10th grade academy and she studies, like, moon rocks, like, all of those different formations on the moon, and I remember she just had a box of rocks and she was like, Hey, you guys can touch this, and now I can say, Yeah, I touched the moon in my 10th grade Geoborce Academy. So it's super cool. I really love the experiences that you guys are giving out to kids and it's really just truly amazing how far it's like going and just the extent of the program is just amazing.  [00:35:43] Jennifer Peña: Yeah, exactly. And Stephanie is an alumni. Stephanie is from Houston and did the GeoForce program and then decided to go into geology. So it's just amazing. Really great to have those full circle moments where, honestly, I, sometimes I forget that I did the whole program and then came back and all that, but it's really cool seeing that and seeing, um, people like Stephanie or like, um, Priscilla Paez, who is from Del Rio, who did the program, then kind of took some time off, and then now is working at Chevron, being a G. O., Technologist and it's coming back and do, and doing these trips as an alumni mentor, it's really nice to see both the fact that they're being so impacted by the program, but also the fact that they would like to come back and want to give back and want to kind of help out this next generation of Geo Four students is really nice. And something that I personally want to see continue times a thousand, um, with the GeoForce program, because the students are one, the main thing, why we do this program is because of the students. Um, but also the alumni, because how, how are you going to have these students and tell them, oh, go into geology, and then just never speak to them again when they start doing geology or when they go off to college? I feel like the alumni are so important, and they are really the people who are going to make the, to make the Geoforce program continue on, just because at the end of the day, They're the people who can give the best feedback on the program and really tell you their real feelings on it. And so it's really nice to have them be able to come back and talk to the students both about the great things and maybe the not so great things. Just because then you can see where it needs to grow and how students can be helped out.  [00:37:38] Diya Gaur: I see. I see. That's really cool. So you said the good and the bad things, but what would you say some of your favorite moments from this year's 10th grade academy would be? Oh my gosh,  [00:37:48] Jennifer Peña: okay, so I did, I did two 10th grade academies. I did the Southwest 10th grade and the Houston 10th grade, which were very fun. I, hmm, let me think. My favorite part, so this year we added Antelope Canyon, which was a very big kind of, Throw up in the air. Let's see if it works. Let's see if kids are interested and if they are liking what's going on and Luckily, they loved it. They thought it was great. Both groups got to really see it in a really beautiful way They got to take really nice pictures And that was really nice, I'm very glad it happened. But I think overall, my favorite moment on the 10th grade is the Lowell Observatory night, just because, so we go out to Lowell Observatory where they found Pluto, and students get to walk around and see all the exhibits. However, we go at night, so we end up giving students little glow stick necklaces, so they are each in their counselor groups. And they have the autonomy in their counselor groups to walk around to anywhere they would like at that time, so there's different exhibits, there's different telescopes, there's a little gift shop. And they get to go do whatever they feel is right in their little counselor groups, and I really like seeing that because as I'm walking around, I see the counselor groups really get together and get really connected. They get to have a little fun with each other. They, as they walk past, on the southwest 10th grade, two of the groups were walking past each other and they started kind of joking at one another. One of them was wearing blue, the blue necklaces, the other one wearing, I think, green necklaces, and they started kind of going back and forth and fighting to see who was the best counselor group, and then they walked away. And then they got so invested in the telescopes that were happening and in This exhibit that was going on, and so it's really nice seeing those little moments whenever we are able to kind of let you guys be free, but in, you know, in a safe space, in an area where I can see everyone in their little glow stick necklaces, um, and so that's probably one of my favorite times on the 10th grade, because then, you know, At that point, it's the end of the week, you guys have been working so hard and seeing everything, especially in the hot sun that is the southwest area, like, there, it's 100 degrees, for sure. Um, so it's really nice to see everyone kind of have a good time, but still be very interested in what's going on.  [00:40:25] Diya Gaur: Yeah, I mean, at least at the beginning of our GeoForce trip, I remember the way I initially met you was at like, the vending machines. So I was with my best friend Nadiyah, and we asked Jennifer if we could go out to the vending machines. So, we were trying to buy like, multiple items at the vending machines, and it wasn't working. I don't know what's wrong with the UT of vending machines, but that's just something I still like, remember from today. Just being with my friends, like, having these experiences with all of the different counselors and staff of GeoForce, like, that's one part that's really memorable to me. And the connections that you make along the way are so important as well, like, all of the guest speakers, amazing. I still have them on LinkedIn, which we did in GeoForce 12th grade. And it's just really nice to see what they've done and, you know, their experiences and to learn from them. So, yeah.  [00:41:15] Jennifer Peña: Sorry, what were you going to  [00:41:15] Diya Gaur: say? [00:41:16] Jennifer Peña: No, I was just gonna say exactly. I think my favorite thing for all the other trips from like the 9th to 11th is those like moments where we let you guys do that at the end. So like the 9th grade, my favorite moment is now we've added skits to it. And so that's just a whole afternoon where kids have to work together and make a little skit and then perform it. And it's the most, it's the craziest thing, because you just tell a group of kids, like, hey, talk about weathering and erosion, and they'll create a poem that they act out, or they'll create a K drama. And explain the K drama with music behind it. Like, it is so interesting. And then the 10th grade, like I was saying, Lowell Observatory is amazing. On the 11th grade, we have a beach night, um, on the second to last night. That is really, honestly, just so you guys can be together and really have that moment. Where you can de stress and relax and be there all together as one. And so it's those little moments on those trips that I really enjoy. And then on the 12th grade, it really is for me the symposium. Just because at the end, you guys are so stressed at the beginning, but by the end everyone's relaxed. Everyone's kind of just talking to each other, chit chatting to the group next to them on their posters. And it is really fun. A blast. So it is always those little moments that are really great.  [00:42:39] Diya Gaur: Yes, well, I love to hear it, like, really, so amazing. So, earlier, you did mention Antelope Canyon, and I just wanted to, like, ask, like, why is it so important that we have kids go to these different places to learn about geology? Like, how does it complement what they're learning in GeoForce as a whole?  The Value of Hands-On Learning [00:42:59] Jennifer Peña: I am a very hands on learner. I can read a book a thousand times, and I will get it, I guess, but I really like hands on experiments. And so, it's really nice on these 10th grade trips where you can actually go and see what is happening, the laws, the unconformities, you can see the unconformity in the Grand Canyon. We go down the Kaibab Trail and you can actually see the layers changing as you're going down. Um, in Antelope Canyon, you can see the crossbeds. Like, you are walking against crossbeds. And so it's just so beautiful that we can talk about it all day long and they can draw it on a whiteboard. But whenever you're out there, you are actually seeing the effects of it, and then, um, being able to connect to it. Because it's now it's no longer a thing in your textbook, a little picture, or something on your computer screen. It is now something that you feel like you've seen, but also that you can connect with, and that you can do again. One other thing I really like about why we go out and why we show students this is besides the fact that now they're knowing geology, now they can see themselves doing geology. They can see it as a viable thing for their futures and as something that they can pursue after high school. So everyone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer because people see doctors all the time and There's a thousand shows about lawyers and the law and all that. So it's really nice that we can put you guys in these spaces where you can ask professionals these questions and then actually have some good answers that can work you towards that end goal if you would like and let you know that that is an end goal that's possible to you. Like, it is not crazy and absurd to think you can be a geologist going out to the field and looking at these sites later on. It is, it is a reality that you guys can have. And so that's really nice and what I really like also about GeoForce.  [00:45:02] Diya Gaur: That's amazing. I feel like I'm saying this over and over again, but like really, it's so cool, it's so amazing to see what you've been doing with GeoForce. Like, I really love to hear about all of this different types of stuff and I'm sure our listeners as well can relate to that as well. If you see GeoForce, it's such a unique program, like, it's an experience that you won't really find anywhere else. It's just so great to see what you guys are doing, like, behind the scenes, and not just what we see in the forefront as the students ourselves who are participating in GeoForce. [00:45:33] Jennifer Peña: Yeah, it's really cool. I think it is why I then applied to be a coordinator was, besides obviously loving this and wanting to do science communication, it was then, like you had said, whenever I was then a college student, I Of course I wanted to be a counselor! So I then applied to do it, and actually seeing the background, a little, like, taste of what goes on in the background, was so interesting to me. Because then, it felt more real. It felt less like, oh, I'm just signing up, and I'm gonna be there for a week, and then I'm coming back, and I'm going back home, um, and this is just a fun thing to do a week in the summer. It now felt like this whole production rea well, not production, but this whole This holistic program that really takes the whole year to run and really has thought behind it. So that was really nice to see as a counselor and then now obviously as a coordinator to see kind of everything in the background and have a little, have a little say in like, hey, we should add Antelope Canyon. That would be fun. And then having it be added and having students like it, it was, it's really nice. It's a really good feeling.  Conclusion and Final Thoughts [00:46:42] Diya Gaur: Yeah, well Jennifer, thank you so much. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but really thank you so much for participating in my podcast, and I would love to have you back on my show. I loved hearing from you, like that was just truly so amazing, and when it goes out, make sure that you subscribe and rate our podcast, The Art of Subduction. [00:47:03] Jennifer Peña: Also, before you stop the recording, beautiful name, beautiful name, I saw it come up, who was telling me, I think it was Mitchell had told me what it was, and I said, that's incredible, I was like, okay, I was going to say yes beforehand, but now that I know the name, incredible, yes, of course, 1000%, so thank you Diya also for having me on. And asking me these interesting questions that I don't really ask myself enough, so also to have you ask them and to think about them is really nice, and I'm hoping a lot of students, both in GeoForce and not shown GeoForce, really get to see this and get to think about it and hopefully apply or at least think about geology as a potential science and a potential project for them later on in the future. [00:47:50] : Thank you.  [00:47:51] Diya Gaur: Right. Thank you so much. This is Diya and Jennifer on the Art of Subduction signing out.

How do hands-on experiences translate into skills in the workforce? On this episode of the Art of Subduction, we hear from GeoFORCE alum Jennifer Peña and her journey in both pursuing and working in the geosciences! Hear about her GeoFORCE experience, and how her experiences have helped shape her career. —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu ——————   Transcript iously, because, you know, parents. They were just kind of waiting for that at the end of orientation slide to say, okay, well now it's cost this much and this much and this much to do the trips. But they were very happy when it did not say that, so that was great. Um, and then doing it all throughout four years was pretty wonderful.  Discovering a Passion for Geology [00:01:44] Jennifer Peña: I will say I did not initially get into GeoForce because I was in love with rocks. I was more so in love with the idea of having these new experiences, you know, meeting these new people, especially people outside of my hometown. And then it just so happened that doing it, I fell in love with geology a little bit. And after our 11th grade trip, which is for Geo4s, for people who don't know, is the trip that we go to the Pacific Northwest and we go to places like Mount Hood, Crater Lake. Being there, I realized, okay, well, I can do geology. Like, it's interesting. It's more than just these beautiful places, you know, there is science behind it and there's reasoning behind it. And so that kind of interested me. And then our twelfth grade trip, my year was the first year they brought us to Austin, and the first year they started doing, like, the Austin trip as the twelfth grade trip, and so it really kind of solidified that I was going to apply to UT after being here. I realized, okay, well, I'll do that. I'll do geology at UT, I'll apply, let's see what happens. And then I was fortunate enough to get in, and so then I did my Bachelor's in Geoscience here at UT. It was pretty, pretty fun. Pretty good time.  [00:03:01] Diya Gaur: Wow. That's amazing. Actually, yeah, I can relate to that a lot, myself, as like, you know, I went on these GeoForce trips, and now I actually want to pursue a major in Geology, so to hear that from you, like, as someone who shares that experience, like, super inspiring, that's really cool. Yeah,  [00:03:17] Jennifer Peña: it's, it's insane. And I don't think I would have, if I were to talk to my ninth grade self, she would not say, oh you're doing geology and you did this and you did that, you're working for GeoForce, like none of that, none of that would have even like come to my mind. But after all these experiences, I don't know, GeoForce just hooked me in a little bit. True,  [00:03:38] Diya Gaur: true.  Studying Geosciences at UT [00:03:38] Diya Gaur: So, I mean, how would you describe your overall experience, like, studying at UT and the geosciences there?  [00:03:45] Jennifer Peña: Studying at UT was really incredible because it allowed me to do so many things within the realm of geology. I will say whenever I did come into it, I kind of came into it with the base, Of, okay, I'm gonna do geology, I'm gonna go to oil and gas, and that's my life. Like, that is what's gonna happen, and that's how I'm gonna make money, and that's how I'm gonna, like, progress. Because that's kind of all I knew, and at the time, GeoForce was more so interested in showing that aspect of it, because that was a lot of our donor base. And so, that's really kind of most of what I knew about geology. And then coming to the Jackson School, I realized there's so much more, and there's so many more possibilities. Like, I didn't even know about hydrogeology or anything like that until I got here, and I saw that people were majoring in that, and people were making their whole lives around things of that sort. So, eventually, I mean, I'm not a geologist right now, I did not choose to pursue that path 100%, Um, but I will say it is largely because of the Jackson School that I am now where I am today, which is doing kind of science communication and outreach, because at the Jackson School, there are courses like Geoethics, where they talk about, like, ethical issues in geology, and how just the modern, everyday person sees geology and faces it. And then there's a broader impacts course. Which then has you pick certain scientific topics that are currently kind of in the forefront of everyone's mind or maybe not so out there, but people who study those sciences do deal with it on a day to day basis. So it's stuff like, oh, how is field camp run for geologists? Which, I love field camp, it's great, but it also is really expensive. So we kind of talked about stuff like that. And so I will say, like, being at the Jackson School allowed me to learn all these different facets of what geosciences can be, as well as, you know, like what we taught you guys on the 12th grade, so there's like, there's doing Python and doing coding, there is analyzing cores, paleontology, all this realm of things that I probably would not have known if it were not for the Jackson School and GeoForce together. [00:06:10] Diya Gaur: Right. Okay, that's so cool. I love to hear it. So, I mean, you mentioned so many different courses, like Geoethics, but which one was your favorite?  The Broader Impacts Course [00:06:18] Diya Gaur: Ooh, easily the Broader Impacts course.  [00:06:21] Jennifer Peña: Easily. Okay. So, um, I had a professor, his name is Adam Papendiek, at the Jackson School, and he is a science writer at the Jackson School and led a course on broader impacts. Now, I will say I was taking this during COVID, and so it was a little bit skewed just because we couldn't see each other face to face all the time. But even then, it still impacted me so much because it was the first time I took a science based course. Because it's also a course in the Jackson School. Like, it is a fully Jackson School run course. But it was the first time I took one that did not prioritize science. the science necessarily, and more so prioritized, okay, what is happening to people? How are they being affected? How is what you're learning going to really change the lives of people afterwards? Importance of Science Communication [00:07:14] Jennifer Peña: And so that's when it kind of clicked to me where, which is what I've told you guys and what I tell, um, all of our students, is at the end of the day, we love that you know the science and we love that you're interested. But if you cannot share that with people, then what really is the point? You know, like, if you are hoarding all of this grand information and all of this science to yourselves, then really what is the point of having that knowledge? You have to be able to talk about it and connect it to people and make them kind of Make them, one, know how it's going to affect them, so they know how to decide what to do next, and two, make them interested. Because, I mean, I can talk about rocks all day, but if I don't make it sound fun, and if I'm just, I'm just talking about rocks like this, and low, and Then nobody's gonna nobody's gonna care, really, at the end of the day. So, that course really did help me out with Realizing that that is what I wanted to do.  [00:08:17] Diya Gaur: Right. And like, it's also so important that we know how geosciences work because we live on the earth and we should know about where we're living. So yeah, really important to know about that, especially like for younger people as well. Encouraging Gen Z to Study Geology [00:08:31] Diya Gaur: We're both Gen Z, correct? Yeah, cuz, yes, yes, yes, we are both Gen  [00:08:39] Speaker 3: Z.  [00:08:40] Diya Gaur: Okay, so, in that sense, I'm just saying like, um, for younger Gen Z, like, people who are around my age, like, in high school, like, a lot of kids don't know what they want to do, actually, and so, the fact that GeoForce is, like, exposing kids early on is super important, and then it just gives them a deeper understanding of Exactly where they are in the world, like, you know, all this different type of stuff, like, how the sciences affect our day to day lives. So that's really an important part of what you are doing, and GeoForce, and so I find that super cool.  [00:09:14] Jennifer Peña: No, that is so true, like, there is so many people that I've met now at the Jackson School PhD, And I talk about geoforce and all the things and they go, Oh, I didn't even know about geology until my junior year of college because I took a random geology class because I needed a science and then I realized I loved it. And it just goes to show kind of how impactful geology can be because it has all these connections. Because you can be doing physics, you can be doing chemistry, you can be doing biology, math, all of these things do impact geology and can connect in different ways, it's just depending on what you like, so if you like to code, you can do geology, if you like to work with plants and animals and the environment, you can do geology. If you like to work with people instead and kind of help them out, you can do geology, it just, we don't show young people that enough, I don't think.  [00:10:16] Diya Gaur: Right, you actually answered my next question, I was going to ask you why should Gen Zers study geology, but you answered it perfectly.  [00:10:25] Speaker 3: Also,  [00:10:25] Jennifer Peña: I would also say that it is a good way to kind of, well of course, everyone loves the outdoors, go hike, go outside, you know, get connected with nature. But also, then you can realize, like, hey, maybe, maybe I did like Python, but I wanted to be outside more, or I wanted to actually, or I have this small inkling of liking biology, but I don't really know how to do that. Geology can make those kind of connections and make it seem a little seamless. And it's just really great. Also, join GeoForce, guys.  [00:10:59] Diya Gaur: True, true. And also, like, that's what we got to do in the 12th grade program as well, where we did our research projects. So we have, like, a lot of different research mentors, and so we really just dove into what we were interested in. So, for example, I was in the Kiesling lab, and we were studying ice sheets. And what we did, which was super cool, is learn how to code in Python. So, for me, I thought that was super cool because, you know, I've had experience in coding, but it's not been that intensive where I've been able to actually make things and make my code go somewhere, but I learned so much from the program in just that one week I spent in GeoForce this summer, and And I, you know, really excelled, like, I thought that was an environment which I thrived in, and so, that's kind of just fueled my passion for the geosciences, and even more of a reason why I want to pursue it, like, in college as well. [00:11:53] Jennifer Peña: No, that is, that is so great, Diya, oh my gosh. No, I, so, even before the summer, um, a little bit about kind of my geo, like, geoforce things, so after I did undergrad in geology, I then, uh, like my junior year, senior year, I realized Hey, I love geology, but geology is not for me. I want to do science communication and outreach. But I was on a full scholarship, so I did not feel like I should restart my degree term. So I just kind of finished off my geology degree, then did environmental consulting for a bit, and then came and worked here. I have started working here with GeoForce. Um, and last summer I ran the 12th grade along with Jasmine, which was very fun, and then this whole year leading up to it. So we know which trips we're leading kind of. in about September or October. So it's been since September or October that I know I had been, I knew that I had been, was going to do this with Mitchell and Eleanor. And all throughout this time I was telling them, guys, the 12th grade is so good, the 12th grade is so good. And, honestly, they were a little skeptical, because, I mean, the 10th grade you go out to Arizona, the 11th grade you go out to the Pacific Northwest, like, the 12th grade, you stay at UT, there's a lot of kids, how can it be, how can it be so good? And I was like, guys, trust me, it's my favorite. And it continues to be my favorite, even after the summer. And it's because of moments like that, that you guys finally get to choose what you want to do throughout the week. Excited about that work while you're doing it because I know obviously, obviously the 10th grade is really fun because you go and get to go to the Grand Canyon and you get to go, um, to, now they go to Antelope Canyon and they do Zion and it's great and then obviously Pacific Northwest, we've already talked about it, like they're just great trips overall, but a lot of the times, Some kids are not very interested in the geology that's going on around there, are just more interested in, hey, it's a good trip, it's a fun time, I'm getting to know these people, and I'm making these connections. Which is good, and I feel like it's necessary for then the 12th grade to happen. So you already know how to make these connections, and you already sometimes have these connections with these people that you're working with. But finally, you guys have the autonomy to choose what you're doing. And to choose something that interests you. So every Every time we start off the 12th grade, we do ask y'all, like, hey, give me three things, give me your top three choices for your projects, so that we know at least you'll like what you're doing, and so you have more reason to go all out and to learn these things. And it's really great because then at the end you guys present at the symposium and it's amazing and I get to like obviously not listening to all them because I'm running around all the time but I'm stopping I'm making my little stops looking at posters and going okay good job guys and then running around but it's really nice to see y'all really excel at the end because I know it's nervous it's nerve wracking like crazy but it is really nice to see that you've All finally had the chance to do what you wanted to do, and then really got some tangible skills at the end of it. And so that's why I still, even after, like after this summer, I was like, okay guys, so, again, the 12th grade is the best out of all the trips, I'm just letting you know. So yeah,  [00:15:32] Diya Gaur: for sure. And like, I think even if you're not going into the geosciences, it's like super rewarding to just be there and kind of experience like, Oh, how do you make a research poster? Like, you know, there's so many different skills you can get from it. Like how I learned Python, that can be like, so good for anyone, like, you don't necessarily have to go specifically into the geosciences to learn Python or know how to use it. So it's like really teaching you those life skills that are super important to use later in life. And, you know, things like coding, it's becoming more and more, like, prevalent, like, in today's world, so it's really important skills that we should and need to know. Exactly. So, I did have a question, and it's, how did you make that switch from being a geologist, like, going on that track, to being an outreach coordinator for GeoForce? Transitioning to Science Outreach [00:16:19] Diya Gaur: Like, what initially fueled that?  [00:16:21] Jennifer Peña: Ooh, okay. So, it was Alright, so when I went to college, my sophomore and junior year were COVID, and so it was all online. And that is prime time when geology students are doing field courses, so they're going out into the field, they're mapping, they're really learning what it is to be a geologist. And I remember, um, my sophomore course, it was, uh, field methods? course. And we made it like halfway through the course before, you know, COVID shut everything down during spring break and all the things. At that point, I realized I wasn't that sad that I was not going on these field trips and all that and doing all of that. And I just thought, okay. Then as I continued progressing, I started taking, I just realized that I started taking more kind of ethics courses, environmental science courses, courses that dealt with the human interaction with geology and how people learn about it. And I just kind of just slowly started making that progression. Then when I graduated, I mean, I had a BS in geology and I knew I didn't want to go straight into my master's. I wanted to take a little, a little time to myself to kind of realize what I wanted to do next. I can solidify that before I jumped into something. So I did environmental consulting for a little bit, and that was great. I learned a lot of things. I got to do so many papers and so many site inspections and collect data from wells and collect soil samples, all that stuff, and it was great. And when I would talk to some of my coworkers, they were so interested in it and they loved it. And I realized I was not talking about it the same way, at all. I was kind of more so talking about it in a way of, Oh, I guess I have to do this, and I guess I have to do that. And then, I will say, I did have one site that I really loved, and it was a site in Dallas. That worked with providing free mental health checks, regular health checks, to underserved women and children in the Dallas area. So you would say, well, what did my random environmental consulting group and team have to do with them? Well, we were just testing the water near one of their wells, cause So that they could build on it and all of that. But I was not at all concerned with that. I was more so concerned with what was going on at the clinic and how they were helping people. And at this point, I kind of realized, like, yes, I do want to do outreach. And I do want to do communications. And I want to connect it to science. But I want to know more about what's going on. And so, actually, maybe Leah will actually hear this. In November, before I got this job. I have an email saved in my draft that I never actually sent to Dr. Leah Turner, the program director of GeoForce. Basically asking, saying, hey, I'm a GeoForce alumni, I really love the program, I was involved at UT, and I'd really like it if I could work at GeoForce. I don't know if any jobs are opening, but that would be very cool. Is basically what the email was saying, in more professional terms, because obviously, Dr. Leah Turner, I'm not gonna tell her, oh, it would be really cool, I had to word it really nicely, and then I just never sent that email, because I, I guess I was too chicken at the time, um, and, but then it just so happened that in January, uh, a position opened up, and I immediately applied.  The Role of GeoForce in Shaping Careers [00:20:18] Jennifer Peña: I was like, this is it, this is what I want to do, and so I applied, I got in, so eight months after I had moved from Austin to live in Dallas, I then moved back to Austin to come and do GeoForce. And so since then, I've been working here and I have just loved it. Um, I've loved all different aspects of the job, from the pre planning, so that's kind of getting. All the logistical stuff ready for you guys before you even come in. Like the hotels, the buses, the food, all the park P waivers that we're gonna have to do for all the parks we go to. Making sure, timing wise, it all makes sense and there wasn't any crazy times from last year. If we add something, making sure that works. So doing all of that, and then what I was really excited about beforehand, so when I first got in, um, was doing the symposium. I was so thrilled about that. And so these past two years I've worked And done a large part of the symposium, and I, I just love that. I love all of that. Just because it is a big event, but it also is a big event that is around you guys. And it's kind of centering y'all, and showing y'all as the stars of the week. Especially after your long week that you've been having. Like, it's finally your, yeah, it's finally your time to go, hey, like, here we are, here it is. And it's this culminating event that is just so incredible. So being able to work on it and kind of plan for all of that. And then also, I will say earlier, I did say about running around, I kind of love the running around. It makes the time go by a lot quicker. The fact that I'm going from here to there, making sure everyone's set up, everyone's good. Um, and then what surprised me actually after my first summer was how much I really did love the coordination of it all during the week. Cause I knew, I knew I was gonna kinda like it just cause I had been, um, a PLA in the past, so that's for the Math and Science Institute, uh, they are peer learning assistants. So they're kind of tutors but also counselors for the rising, um, the rising college freshmen that are going to places like UT in the fall. So I had been a PLA, I had been a counselor for a 12th grade beforehand. And so I knew I liked that, like, working on the summers and working throughout the academies. Um, but I just didn't know how much I was going to love the actual coordination of it all, and being able to be kind of that point person for both all the staff and for the students, and coming out of that first summer, I I loved it. And then now, throughout the year, my job is transition to college and career coordinator, and honestly, it keeps me alive. It keeps me alive during the fall, because I know around here, we do do a lot, because we're planning the hotels, we're planning the buses, but it can get a little dull, especially since you're not seeing the students, and you're kind of working towards this goal that you know is going to happen at the end, but you don't have, like, any connection with the students beforehand. And so doing the transition to college and career is really nice, because then I get to see y'all as alumni and really, now really connect and really talk to y'all one on one. Um, and ask, okay, like, what do you want from us? Do you want internships in geoscience, in environmental consulting, in, Computer science and engineering, like what are y'all needing from us so that we can help you and so we can make the program better for y'all afterwards. And then just seeing y'all go do great things and do great internships and do great research afterwards and then coming back and talking to me about it, it's incredible. I love, I love all that. So I, I really do love this job and love all the different angles of it and different sides of it, whether it be. In the fall, so like, right now, I am gearing up for the start of the school year for UT students. We already have, like, all of the fall semester GeoForce Longhorns meetings set up. I'm already gonna send out those things. I already have, actually, which you're going to see an email about later, um, a college applications and college, like, workshop for the 12th graders to kind of a last minute thing of, hey, I'll One, don't forget to apply early if you need to, cause it always helps, but also like, hey, if you need help with your essays, it's not too late, you can ask these people if you need, like, don't forget about the G4 scholarships and stuff like that. So creating those events that really help you guys during the year, both in your lead up to college and then in college. Are really fun for me.  [00:25:14] Diya Gaur: Right, right. That's amazing, yeah. Actually, now, I kind of want to go into GeoForce, like, again, and be a counselor for, you know, all of the new students. Just because, like, my experience with you guys has been just so amazing and great. I think it's, like, so good, like, just keep on the, like, keep the legacy going, because Your voice has been changing the outlook of people's lives since 2008, right? 2005. Oh, okay, well, three years  [00:25:41] Jennifer Peña: off, but, yeah, 2005 is even better. Actually, since 2005 for Southwest, since 2008 for Houston. So you were, you were pretty, you were good for your area, like, You didn't get  [00:25:54] Diya Gaur: that year out of nowhere. Okay, guys, I'm glad that I still remember at least that much. Yeah. 

In this episode of The Art of Subduction, Diya reconnects with GeoFORCE coordinator Eleanor Cote to explore the impact of hands-on learning and accessibility in geosciences. They discuss GeoFORCE’s 11th-grade academy's trip to the Pacific Northwest, where students come face-to-face with formations like Mount St. Helens and Crater Lake. Eleanor and Diya reflect on the importance of hands-on learning, especially when it comes to their own learning. Hear more from Eleanor on what it was like to study geology at UT Austin, how she overcame its challenges, and why it’s beneficial to study geology.   Stay tuned for part 2! —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu —————— Transcript [00:00:00] Diya Gaur: Hello and welcome to The Artist's Production. My name is Diya and today I'm here with… [00:00:17] Eleanor Cote: with Eleanor! My name is Eleanor. I am a coordinator with I've been a program coordinator now for two years, and I had the pleasure of having Diya as one of my students for two of the summers.  [00:00:35] Diya Gaur: Yay!  [00:00:36] Eleanor Cote: 11th and 12th grade, right? Yes. Yes. So, Eleanor was one of my coordinators for the 11th grade academy, as well as the 12th grade academy. Um, it was super fun actually, like 12th grade we did like the research project and then 11th grade is what you're coordinating now, right?  [00:00:55] Eleanor Cote: Um, so I, program coordinators typically do, um, a couple of different things. Academies per summer, but it doesn't necessarily stay the same each summer. So, for example, last summer, I did, um, one of the 9th grades, I did two 10th grades, and then I did the 11th grade that you were on, um, then this summer, I did a 9th grade, I did, um, two 11th grades and then I did the 12th grade so I think next summer I'll probably be following along the two 11th grade academies that I had so I'll go and be with them on the 12th grade and then I'm not too sure what they're going to give me it kind of depends on just availability and then sometimes they want us to follow some of the groups that we had but it's not always a guarantee so yeah I think the schedule's out right now but I'm not I'm not too Like, I'm not for sure yet which one I'm doing, so, TBD. [00:01:51] Diya Gaur: Can you tell me a bit more about the 11th grade academy and what goes on during it?  [00:01:57] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, absolutely. So, the 11th grade, as you remember, is probably Coined as one of our best trips just because we take our students to a completely new environment. And so, um, just a bit of background, uh, the ninth grade students, they stay in Texas and they do like, um, life of the sediment, learn about the rock cycle, um, just introduction to geology, um, sophomore year, they go to Utah and Arizona. So it's sort of like the American Southwest kind of desert environments, which it's hot. And many students in Texas know that that's, you know, what Texas is like too, so it's not unfamiliar to them. But then going up to the Pacific Northwest on the 11th grade trip We take students up to, uh, places like Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood, and we see, um, like these big stratovolcanoes that you're not used to seeing in Texas at all. I think there is one quote unquote volcano in Austin. It's called Pilot Knob, and it literally just looks like this. A hill. So, um, students get to see these actual, like, big volcanoes for the first time, and then we talk to them a lot about geologic hazards, and what life is like on an active margin, and so, life on the coast, up in Oregon and Washington, you are sitting right on an active margin, and so, there is a lot of tectonic activity happening, um, You got, uh, plates subducting into one another, causing, um, you know, melt, and so that's why you have this line of volcanoes running from, I think it's like Northern California up all the way up into Canada, and so we hit several volcanoes on that line. We start off Mount St. Helens the first day, we go to Mount Hood the second day, um, we go by the, I think it's the three sisters, um, we see like Mount, gosh, there's so many, I can't even remember the names of them, um, but you see them all in the distance, right, and they're kind of all in a line, and so we talk about them all being in a line, and and explain to students like how the plates are subducting and why it's causing all of these volcanoes to be sort of in line with one another, right? And then we take students to Crater Lake which is a caldera, which is basically a volcano that exploded very violently and then collapsed in on itself. And then we take students to uh, what's it called? The Newberry Caldera, so they see another version of a caldera. And then we go out to the coast and we talk about the geologic hazards happening out there. So the Oregon coastline is prone to having tsunamis. And so a lot of people typically don't think of tsunamis when they're thinking of like geologic hazards, but whenever there's an earthquake happening deep at sea, you know, miles off the coast, that can cause a huge tsunami to come and devastate the entire coastline. Um, so we teach students all about that too because tsunamis typically don't happen on the Texas coast, the Gulf of Mexico is typically pretty calm, um, and so we like to show students that there are a number of other things to worry about. Besides just, like, tornadoes and hurricanes that we typically receive in Texas, um, and it's also really amazing to get students out of their environment of, um, being in, like, you know, humid Houston or, like, deserty Southwest Texas. You know, we go up and see these huge pine trees and, um, get to experience cooler weather, typically. This past year, it was 90 plus degrees in Oregon, and it was actually hotter in Oregon than it was in Texas, which, not fun, but, you know, it's the scenery, and then, like, you get to see these huge mountains that You just don't see in Texas. And so that experience, I feel like for most students and for my, in my own experience too, because I was actually a GeoForce student, that was the trip that made me think like, Oh, the earth is so big and there's so many different types of landscapes and there's so much to study that's not just in my hometown. It's a very unique experience and I think that's really the aha moment for a lot of kids being like, maybe this is something I could pursue. Kite  [00:06:17] Diya Gaur: Yeah, no,  [00:06:17] Eleanor Cote: actually  [00:06:18] Diya Gaur: I have the booklet from the 11th grade academy, I actually have it right in front of me right now. It's the one that we get on every trip, the, like this one? The 11th grade academy, right, and so it just gives us an overview of the trip, right, and then, I mean, I remember learning a lot of this stuff and also the name of the podcast comes from like Something I learned on the trip, the art of subducting, so, you know, those connections are really there. Yeah. What was your experience on that trip? Actually, okay, that was my favorite trip. I think that is the trip that convinced me to go into geology. I was like, Yeah, I can definitely see myself studying this for the, like, next, like, how many ever years, and I think just geology is a field where you'll never get tired of what you're learning. There's just so much to learn and find out about the earth that it's like, when you're helping others, like, I like to help people. There's a lot of different fields where you can help people, but one thing about geology is that you're kind of bringing up a subject which is so essential to, like, life in general. So we have the issue of, like, climate change, which is going on. It's really important that we get people educated on that, and so that first step of, like, educating people comes from geologists who have to study the environment, like the planet, and then get that information out there to educate the rest of the, you know, world, really. [00:07:38] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely. And I think it's interesting to show students that this type of science is happening in all different corners of the US and of the world. I mean, obviously, GeoForce, we are just, you know, sort of like a US based program, but I mean, these types of Things and this type of research is happening all, all around on all corners of the globe. I mean, we have researchers at UT who go down to Antarctica. We had a expedition that just went up to Greenland. Um, I mean, people who are studying down in Argentina and Chile and, you know, over in Zimbabwe, you know, places that you wouldn't think like, Oh yeah, let me go do science there. But like science is happening there. And it's. It's exciting to see and it's exciting to be a part of, definitely.  [00:08:30] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and also, so my research mentor who I was with at the 12th grade academy, he's one of the people who went to Greenland for his research. And so he was telling me that when they go on these really big trips for whatever study or just research that they're doing. doing in general. They have like these super big groups of different types of scientists who come together and they all kind of just collaborate like between biologists, chemists, geologists. I think that is so cool. That is so amazing. And honestly, it's a very interdisciplinary field, like geology in general. So you need all of these different types of people. And there's a lot of ways you can go with geology. It's not just like learning about the earth, but also It's relationships with, like, other things.  [00:09:16] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely! I feel like that's what I always tell students, um, whenever they're asking me about, like, what can I go into? Because I feel like whenever I think of geoscientists, I just think of, you know, old dudes who are looking like Indiana Jones studying rocks, right? Typically, whenever you're thinking of a geologist, like, that's who you're gonna picture. You're gonna picture some old man in his little field gear, in his little boots, and he's got a vest on that's full of rocks, you know? But There are so many different sub disciplines of geoscience. There's so many different fields that you can marry with geology. One of the ways that we show this to students is by having the many different options on our 12th grade academy, which I'm not too sure if you've talked about in another podcast, but It's, you know, it's a great way to show students how geology can be merged with economics, geology can be merged with chemistry, geology can be merged with physics, it can be merged with, you know, technology and AI and things like that. I mean, it's not just one type of science and there are ways that are, you know, integrating geology into their sciences and other fields and disciplines, you know, as we speak. So, it's It's so cool to know that, like, whatever you are interested in, there's some sort of intersection between geoscience and, like, that field. And I also like to talk to students about this, like, whenever they're, you know, wondering if, if this is something that they could, uh, potentially do, like, in the future because then they go, well, what if I want to change my degree or what if I want to go into something different? Well, you know, um, Just having a background in geoscience, then you can go into something else, you know, just knowing a little bit about geoscience, like it will make you a better steward of your environment and I mean, that's always helpful whenever you're you're wanting to go into anything because Geology is the study of the earth, and like, we're all on it, you know? Exactly. Yeah. I feel like I'm rambling, but yeah. No,  [00:11:21] Diya Gaur: no, but you're exactly right, like, that's one thing that is so important to know about geology that really many people don't acknowledge, like, when I first came into GeoForce, I just really thought it was about rocks, but You know, going further and further into each one of these academies, you talk to a lot of different people who make you realize it's like, you know, much more than just rocks, right? And so also, like, one thing I really like about GeoForce is how fun they make it, like, you know, learning the material, it's not like school like, but it's One interactive and I think the way that they just like describe some of the things is really funny like I remember from the 11th grade trip um it was the pumice stone and so they compared it to swiss cheese because like the carbon dioxide bubbles and you know how it's like trapped in there and then eventually like forms what we see in like the rock so it's like I mean those little things it's taking one application putting it into another and I mean I personally learned a lot from that I think it's kind of funny too. [00:12:23] Eleanor Cote: Oh, absolutely. I think that experiential learning is one of the best ways and methods to, you know, teach students, or teach anybody anything, really. I feel like I learn way better doing, like, hands on things, um, and I also really value place based type learning, so going out and actually studying things in the field, like, in person, and so not just learning about You know, a beach environment, sitting in a classroom. It's not super, you know, helpful to try to picture what things look like whenever you're just sitting there looking at pictures on a screen. Um, and I think we can all relate. I mean, I went through college during COVID, so, like, I understand, like, Online learning is also, you just, you don't get the same experience as you would if you just went out there and actually looked at it. So, um, yeah, one thing I love about GeoForce is that we actually take students out into the field and teach them about things in person in the places that we're actually like learning about.  [00:13:25] Diya Gaur: So you mentioned like virtual, like going into college or university and then doing, um, you know, or studying geology through that. How was that experience for you? Like, You know, what were the difficulties in it, or what did you learn from, really?  [00:13:40] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, um, well, so my, it was my, I'm gonna show my age here, it was my junior year of college that COVID hit, and so I was doing a field methods class, which, if you take geology, and I'm sure, as you, you'll know, um, going into geology, you have to take certain classes that are, like, out in the field. And so I took a class. That you're supposed to be out in the field online, and that was really difficult because I was supposed to be learning how to do mapping and learning how to take notes, um, of certain outcrops that I see. And so I remember it was also the early days of COVID, so they still hadn't quite adjusted to online learning. And this was something that was completely new because No geologist would ever say, yeah, let's opt for an online program rather than taking our kids out to the field, you know? And so there wasn't much available and they really kind of had to work with what they had. So I remember doing like this, video game thing where you would go and like click on an outcrop and i mean for the technology of what they had i think that it was fine i think it was fine but it definitely stunted my skills in the field it definitely made it much more difficult whenever i actually did have to go out and do and perform these skills i felt like i wasn't as confident i felt like the experience that i had just didn't match being out and actually doing the science. I'm not gonna lie, I really don't like virtual learning. I think that it, I think it can be useful in certain places, so, for example, GeoForce now hosts a virtual academy, and we teach students a skill that is geologically relevant, but also you can do without having to go into the field because some students may be limited, you know, physically or, um, may not want to spend all day outside. And like, that's totally fine. I mean, not everybody is like, let's go hike 10 miles, right? Some people are, some people aren't, and that's okay. So we really, we really wanted to make it, um, more of like an inclusive type environment that any student who feels like I want to. I understand geology and I like geology, but I like the computational aspects, um, could be included in our program. And so, we did, what was it, I think we did a Python project this past year. And that was really awesome, and I mean, that is an amazing project. Prime example of when virtual learning is excellent, and it works, and I think that it was super successful, and a lot of students had a lot of fun, but there's other times where, you know, virtual learning just doesn't work. It can't compare to being out and doing, like, the in person learning, so, yeah, I'm, I, I didn't have a great experience doing it, but at the same time, I'm happy I did because now I feel like I can relate to some students. I mean, now I'm finding out that students were in, like, what, second grade whenever COVID hit? I'm like, oh my god, I'm just like, So old, but at least we have that thing in common, you know, and I can, and I think that students also now, because of that experience, appreciate the in person learning a bit more.  [00:17:15] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and that's super important too, like, I think during 9th grade is when we still had like the virtual GeoForce Academies, like, if you compare that to what I learned, like, in maybe 10th or 11th grade, I think I retained the information I learned, like. in 10th and 11th and the in person academies a bit better honestly saying or speaking than like what we had learned in 9th grade like I barely remember some of the stuff that we learned from 9th grade but you know it's those little differences that make um you know they kind of make this really big impact towards the end as well especially in your knowledge. 12th grade is when we kind of had to put all of that, like, information together, and so that's when it was, like, really the most important. And I did, like, the glacial ice sheets lab, and I was studying the geothermal heat flux and doing ice sheet modeling using Python. And so, even though we did learn Python in person, I can definitely see how it makes a big difference compared to learning it online, like, through the virtual academy. Because one, you have like someone who's like readily there to support you and just like do that one on one stuff I think that's like one thing that I really like about GeoForce as well like the 12th grade research project is that you can get that like advice from whoever's like kind of overseeing your project and You know, it's like these changes, which they're helping you implement into your project, it's super like meaningful because one, it's like an industry level professional, and two, it's like a lot of the, a lot of the time their feedback, they, they know what they're doing really, so when they tell you, oh you should probably fix this in your um, poster or just like in your methodology in general, I think those are also what make a lot of difference as compared to like being online. You know, you can always get that support online, and it makes it very accessible, which I think is also very important, like, this is gonna, I'm gonna talk a bit more about this later, but, you know, there are like those substantial benefits we see to in person learning compared to like online, but on the matter of making geology more accessible, I think that's super important, because a lot of the time, like you mentioned earlier, um, We think of geologists as like, these really old white men who are having their like, Indiana Jones moment. I think it's super important that we get like, more women and people of color involved in the field, because one, it's kind of male dominated right now, I will say that. And so, it's really, really important that we get all these different perspectives, rather than, you know, the same one that we're seeing like, all the time, and yeah. Yes,  [00:19:49] Eleanor Cote: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, this is something I am very passionate about and something that I love to speak on too, because I feel like, um, this is another issue that GeoForce seems to also be addressing, and so, I mean, listen, whenever I went into college, I remember, okay, out of all of the fields, Uh, geology is pretty small, so whenever we had orientation, I remember, like, the chemistry students, there were, like, hundreds of them, right? Physics, hundreds. Computer science, hundreds. There was, like, 30 something geoscience students, right? Whenever everybody's, like, supposed to yell for their major, Geoscience, it sounded quiet because there was only 30 of us. We were really, really trying, but there, what just, there's just not that many, right? And with there not being that many, I can count on one hand how many female professors I had. I can count on one hand how many, uh, people of color I had as my professors. Like, I, I think I had one woman of color. One. And it wasn't even a geology class, it was an elective. Oh, wow. And me, as a white female, you know, obviously having female representation, like, that's awesome, but like, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be a female of color or, you know, any person of color, like, Coming into some sort of department like that, and especially at such a big university, feeling like I'm supported, feeling like I can see somebody who looks like me doing the work that I want to do. That's where I feel like a lot of big institutions really fall short, and it's not necessarily their fault if there aren't students who want to be part of the community. The program, but you have to get those populations and you have to be able to retain those populations by showing them like you can do this work. And so one thing I love about Geo, of course, is that we have a very broad range of students from many different backgrounds and our applications Uh, are pretty unique, and so we obviously blind everything, um, and so, like, nothing is ever taken into account, but just the way that our program is, and students who are interested in what we do, we always end up having, um, a very, you know, Broad range of students. Um, we always typically, I'm not going to say always because there are some cohorts that are kind of like 50, 50, but it's typically like 60, 40, or even 70, 30, um, female to male ratio. And so, um, we do bring in a lot of female students and I think that's awesome. I think it's amazing. And I think. We also do an excellent job at getting instructors who look like our students. And so we have a lot of female instructors, we have a lot of instructors of color, we have staff members who are matching the identities of these students, and I think it is critical, absolutely critical, not just even important, like it is critical to have people who look like you in these spaces because You need role models and you need to see people who, who are doing the work that you want to do, um, and so I'm very passionate about this work. I think it's, like, absolutely necessary. Um. I'm sure you know about SB17. Yes, I do. So, so, it is harder for us, you know, to get certain populations because you can't necessarily target anybody. But GeoForce was never, it's never, it's never been a way that we get students. Like, we, um, have always had blinded applications and, It's a good way of bringing in new students who maybe think that the sciences aren't for them. Um, bringing them to see that this is something for you and this is something that you could definitely succeed in. And, you know, there's always got to be a first, right? So, we want our students to know that. to show one another like, Hey, I have been in your shoes and now look at me like I'm successful. And so we just finished our 20th year for our program. And so now, as you can imagine, like we have people who are well into their careers. In fact, uh, our speaker, I'm not sure if you remember Priscilla who spoke at our GeoForce alumni, um, a couple of years ago. She is a young Hispanic woman from, I think she's from Del Rio, is she from Del Rio? [00:24:43] Diya Gaur: I think so, she's like from a smaller town. [00:24:46] Eleanor Cote: or, yeah. She's from a southwest town, I should know this, but she's a southwest, she's a southwest student, our southwest students are always, like, the best, I was a southwest student, okay, so, I'm a little biased. Um, but, yeah. She gave an amazing speech talking about how whenever she was growing up, you know, she always thought that a geoscientist or a scientist was Old white man. And whenever she had to do some sort of like thought provoking exercise where you had to draw, you know, a geoscientist, that's what she drew. And she ended up going through GeoForce, decided that geology was for her and that she wanted to do it. She went to college, got her degree. And now she is working for Chevron as a geotechnologist, and I remember her finishing her speech saying, Now I know, a scientist can look like me. And I just thought that was so inspiring, and so beautiful, and so inspiring for, like, all of the young ladies, and And young men in our audience, you know, everybody in our audience to see that, and especially y'all being 12th graders, you know, embarking on your senior year and about to go to college, like, I just feel like It's so great to see that somebody who was in your shoes just a couple years ago, you know, who didn't know or think that they could make it, is now working at one of our sponsoring companies, killing it, and now giving a speech in front of everybody. [00:26:19] Diya Gaur: Yeah, I know. I don't know. It was so powerful. She's so inspiring. Yeah, it was so powerful. Like, when I heard that, like, last ending statement, like, a geologist can also look like me, oh my gosh, that was, like, the most perfect way she could have ended off, like, her speech, because one, it's, like, empowering other students, like you said, but two, it's just, like, you really see, like, I mean, How much confidence, like, you can get from, like, doing something that you love, and that's one thing I really love to see, that she's doing something that she's happy in and that she loves, and I think that's also important when considering a career in geology, so yeah. [00:26:53] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely, and then, and then, you know, any young Hispanic woman who's sitting in the audience who's like, I've never seen a geologist that looks like me, Now you've seen one! Like, she's doing a, she's doing, she's doing great.  [00:27:06] Diya Gaur: Right, yeah, no, literally. So, I mean, for the students who don't have GeoForce, like, as we in Texas or the United States do, what would you say to them and, like, how should they get more involved and find people who are similar to them in geology? Like, how do they establish those connections and just, like, Find their community in the geology field.  [00:27:29] Eleanor Cote: I would definitely say there are lots of institutions all around who do outreach programs, and so just a quick Google search, honestly, looking to see if there's any place around you that does any sort of outreach. I know that There are lots of places, even just for me, you know, looking around to see what are other schools doing, like, what, what other initiatives do other people have, like, what kind of things are people doing to increase geoscience awareness, or, or, um, like, teach students, like, That geoscience is a career option for them. I did find a lot of really, really amazing resources. Um, and so I would recommend just searching some place that's close to you, whether it's like, you know, like a university or a, just a smaller college and see if they have anything. And if not, Honestly, just reaching out to someone, a faculty member or, um, somebody like, you know, one of the coordinators or, or myself. An institution that you have, that you find has a program that interests you and just asking questions because, um, Chances are, like, we can connect you to colleagues that we have, or, or other people that we know. We have, I mean, I have a very extensive network now because of being part of the university and working for GeoForce and meeting so many amazing people, whether that's at a conference or just through somebody who knows somebody else. And I love connecting students, love talking to students, love You know, trying to get people interested in the, in the subject. And so, those who don't have access to GeoForce, if I'm being honest, if you don't have access to another program similar to GeoForce, and if you can't find anything, there's lots of resources online. You know, getting on social media and just doing your research. I know there are like GeoForce, not GeoForce, sorry, Geoscience, like content creators who make videos and, and content about science. And so those are really awesome people to follow. Um, they can definitely be a resource to just learning about science and then doing the digging yourself. I mean, if something interests you. Go and search it up, and do your research on it, and you'll find if it's interesting or not, and you'll see if it's actually something for you.  [00:30:11] Diya Gaur: No, yeah, and also, like, museums as well, they're a really good point of, you know, finding geological things, like, I know we have the Museum of Natural Sciences in Houston, which is, like, really big, but they have this huge gems and mineralogy ex Exhibition and there's a lot of stuff you can do with it. You can always volunteer there and you know That's like one way to learn about a bit of geology and honestly like I think now Geology is becoming a bit more expansive. We're seeing it more in different areas and that's one thing that I really like so definitely contacting like local universities and colleges is one thing because I think a lot of the time, or the majority of the time, colleges do happen to have a geology program or like, something similar to it but like, under a different name like Earth Sciences or Planetary Sciences. Yeah.  [00:30:59] Eleanor Cote: And typically they're small programs and they want people to be involved and so whether that's, you know. Buy some sort of outreach initiative that they may have, like a summer camp or even just like a day camp. And if they don't have something like that, maybe they'd be open to you just coming and touring whatever facilities they have. Or just having a faculty member that, you know, geologists love to talk about geology. They will talk to you about it all day, every day. As long as you will listen. And so, I'm sure if you are looking for, you know, somebody to talk to you about geology, if that's what you're interested in, um, yeah, reach out to your, to your local colleges and universities and see what they got. [00:31:43] Diya Gaur: No, yeah, I totally agree with that. And also, on that note, so, through programs like GeoForce, we learn a lot of skills, but, in your experience, have you, like, picked up any skills or, like, you know, different types of knowledge from your experiences with geology, or just, like, geology in general, which you didn't really anticipate you, like, learning and you know. [00:32:02] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, um, well, so whenever I started with geology, I was under the impression that I was going to go into volcanology and it was because of my 11th grade trip because I just found it so fascinating and I was like, oh my gosh, I love the Pacific Northwest. I want to study this. And then I got to college, took a couple classes, and realized, okay, volcanology is not for me, right? And so, I think because, like I mentioned earlier, geology is so broad and there's so many different subfields of geoscience, I took classes. That were just, you know, random. It's not like I come, I, it's not like I followed a very specific career path, um, like I'm going to become a, you know, oil and gas, well log analyst and so I'm going to take classes specifically for that. I was like, let me just take whatever sounds cool and, Let's see what happens. So I ended up taking this paleoclimate class randomly because I heard that the professor was good and I just thought, okay, you know, might as well take it. I ended up loving that class. I thought like climate is so cool. I had never studied it before. And after that, I was looking for opportunities to study climate. And within that, I found the importance of communication. And so. And I thought, oh, I never thought about doing communication. You know, in high school, I was, you know, very outgoing, I was in a lot of clubs and stuff, and I, you know, I've always been a very chatty Cathy, and so I communicate on the daily, but I never thought, oh, like, this is also important. In the context of science, because it's important to be able to communicate your science to people. And so I learned more about the importance of science communication. And so I started taking classes geared towards that. I remember I took a broader impacts class where we talked about, um, you know, the broader impacts of science and how to communicate your science. And I wrote one of my papers on reaching rural populations because I grew up in a very rural town and there wasn't much geoscience outreach done besides the GeoForce program and so I explained that many people whenever they read these or these scientific papers get published it's just a bunch of gibberish big old words and a lot of scientists have big egos and so they use the hardest words that you pull out in the back of the dictionary that nobody knows what those things mean you know And it's almost like, ha ha, nobody can understand my paper, that means I'm smarter, but in fact, people can't understand your paper so they don't know what the heck you're talking about, and then they won't know what science you're doing, you know? And so, yeah, through studying geology, And I hope, hopefully this is answering your question, but yeah, I learned the importance of communication, and specifically, like, being able to communicate the science that you're doing, and knowing your audience, so that's something that I've also learned. So used within my job because I'm speaking to students at the incoming ninth grade level. So these students just finished eighth grade, haven't even done their first year of high school, and I'm supposed to communicate with them. But I'm also supposed to be communicating with, um, students who are about to embark on their college journey, right? And so you have to know your audience. How do I talk to them? Also within my job, I speak to researchers, so people who are, you know, tenured professors who have extensive careers, who have published, you know, hundreds of papers and have been cited, you know, thousands of times, have amazing careers, have to be able to communicate with them, have to be able to communicate with parents who don't know what, you know, why am I taking your kid across the line. United States to teach them about geology and they want to know because they're like, I don't know about geology and my kid just signed up for this and now I'm supposed to be okay with it. I have to communicate with them. I have to communicate with my colleagues. I have to communicate with my staff members. I, through geology, have really learned the importance of communication. Um, and it has, um, been very impactful for me being good at my job. I'm the communications lead. Don't know why they gave me that. They just handed it to me whenever I got the job. And so I was like, okay, this is what I'm doing and I just had to run with it, but I really learned the skills of communication by doing my geoscience classes. And, being introduced to it that  [00:36:48] Diya Gaur: way. Would you say that, like, the communication that you learn in your Geosciences classes, is that, like, partially why you are a GeoForce, like, counselor, and why you decided to come back to GeoForce?  [00:36:59] Eleanor Cote: Um, I think it definitely plays a role. I think that communication and outreach go hand in hand. And so, I think whenever I saw this position open, I thought, This is a way for me to do communication. This was even before that I knew that I was getting the communications coordinator position, um, but I saw this as an opportunity to communicate and to do outreach to things I'm very, very passionate about, that I became passionate about through taking my geoscience classes and One reason I was passionate about outreach was because of taking these climate classes, right, and having family members who think that climate change isn't real, and having people from my hometown that think that, you know, we're on a flat earth, blah blah blah, you know, not necessarily that people believe that, but like, that's the type of Misinformation that people have and I was like, oh my gosh, okay So one thing that I find interesting is climate, right? How do I communicate the things that I? Think and that I know and that I study To the people who don't agree with me on these topics How do I make sure that people understand the work that I'm doing? I forgot to mention at the At my, at one point, my senior year, I started working in a paleoclimate lab where I researched El Nino signatures down in, like it was off the coast of Australia in coral reefs that recorded, um, like the different temperatures. Anyway, interesting science. Very cool stuff, but means nothing to somebody who thinks that none of it's real, right? And so being able to communicate to them, it kind of, it was like a no brainer, like, I need to learn how to be able to do this, right?  [00:38:54] Diya Gaur: Mmhmm [00:38:56] Eleanor Cote: As well as communicating with them, finding importance in introducing people to things, um, and to science, and showing people that, like, you can understand this, like, I can understand this, we can all understand this, let's Understand one another. Um, super full. So, yes, it's Yeah, one of the reasons why I was attracted to this job, but it's been awesome, yeah.  [00:39:20] Diya Gaur: No, I mean, you do such a good job, like, you're really good at what you do, like, I can see those skills, like, the communication skills in you as well, like, you definitely have, like, the art of storytelling, like, I'm so engaged when I talk to you, and I think that's, like, also really important when you're talking to, um, the incoming Geo4 students as well, so, you know, you're super nervous, you're coming in as a freshman, you don't know what to expect, so I think that's really important as well. I mean, on that note, you did mention, like, misconceptions people have, but  [00:39:49] Diya Gaur: Personally, for you, what is like one common misconception people have about geology that you would love to clear up?  [00:39:57] Eleanor Cote: Oh man, let me think about this. Um, I mean, one would be that anybody can be a geologist. I think that that, I mean, we already talked about it, but I think that that is one thing that I wish I could teach everybody because even me coming in with, you know, only taking chemistry as a sophomore, you know, not having any sort of like AP classes just because I went to a very small school. My graduating class was 32 people. Um. Wow, that's small. So small. More cows in the town than people. We had one science teacher who taught us four subjects. You know, I just didn't really have good access to rigorous, advanced education and classes like some of my peers did. And so I went in thinking, okay, let me go to UT because I got out of that a good mission, right? I went in and I failed chemistry so bad I would have had to get like a 300 on the final for me to even pass the class. Had to use a, my, like, one time, you get one. One in your entire college career, you get one Q drop after the period ends. Right, I had to use it my first semester because I failed so badly. Gosh. That felt Like crap, right? That made me not feel didn't feel too too capable of doing geology, right? I was like, uh, Maybe this isn't for me, right? Maybe this is not for me. Then ended up having to take a math class. I took a placement exam and I failed so badly that I wasn't even able to take pre calculus, okay? Wasn't even able to take pre calculus. I remember going into my advisor being like, Eleanor, I'm You're amazing, but things are a little scary right now. I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, they are. Okay, um anyway, I persisted. I went to tutoring. I got my classes done that I needed to get done, took them at a community college. It's fine to take classes at a community college. Totally fine. You're still gonna get your same degree and that Degree and Diploma sitting on my wall right now, and it's the same as all my peers who suffered through Calculus at UT, okay? And I was able to get my degree. I have a BS in Geosciences, and so, um, one thing that I would love to clear up is that anybody is capable of doing it. Anybody Regardless of your age, gender, nationality, any of it, you are more than capable of doing it, and if it's something that you're passionate about, like, you should go for it, and there are resources available for you. Um. There are people who you may see that you think, oh, you know, I can't compete with them, or I'm not, I can't compare myself to them, and to that, I would just say, like, you know, you're your own unique individual, and You can do it. I'm not sure if that necessarily fits with my misconception about geology, which misconception about like academia as a whole,  [00:43:31] Diya Gaur: maybe. I mean, that's like one thing about STEM in general, like people think, well, STEM is difficult, but people are really inclined to give up after their first failure. But I think what's so important to realize about STEM is that It's an ever evolving field, there's always going to be mistakes, and those mistakes are really what leads you to the right answer, like the right conclusion, so, you know, even if you fail at first, you're gonna still end up, like, you know, getting where you want to be, like how you did with your, um, your degree in geology as well, it's like, all those hardships, they do end up, like, making you into a stronger person, and, at the end of the day, you're human, you're exactly, I mean, I wouldn't say you're exactly like everyone else, but you still have the same qualities, traits, you're as capable as, like, some of the brain children you see. So yeah, I think that's really important.  [00:44:26] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely. One piece of advice I would also give You may end up finding that you like something different, you know? I, at first, like I said, thought I was going to go into Volcanology. Realized, you, you very quickly, I think, whenever you're faced with failure, realize your strengths and you realize your weaknesses. And so I remember, you know, Um, realizing very quickly that maybe I was good in math whenever I was in high school, but I am not great at math and I don't enjoy doing it. So, I just decided, like, it's not something I want to continue to sit through. It's not something that I want to continue to, you know, force myself to do. For some people, if you want to force yourself to do something, and because you're like, I'm gonna do it, good for you. I'm not one of those people. I find my strengths, I find my weaknesses, and I avoid my weaknesses. If I can. So, I decided maybe geophysics type things, maybe that's not for me. So, let's see what else I got. So, that's when I started taking other classes that interested me more. Some that, you know, got me out of my comfort zone that I thought maybe I'm not going to care about this. Maybe it's not going to be interesting to me. Um, you know, took the paleoclimate class on a whim. And It redirected me into something that I think that has completely just like blossomed into something awesome. You know, if it's uh, I like the saying, it's not a rejection, it's a redirection. That is so true. I firmly believe in that and I think that it's something you can definitely consider whenever you're in college or Just in life in general, but, but specifically, like, with your major and with your degree.  [00:46:12] Diya Gaur: And I mean, that's like, also one thing that I tell my friends, even if you don't do well on your tests, it's just your sign to just work harder for the next time. You know, a grade, or even a, like, letter, a number, it really doesn't define who you are at the end of the day, and I say that a lot, but I also need to start taking that advice myself. I think that's one thing I need to also learn how to overcome, especially, like, going into college and Wanting to major in geology. I've heard that like college algebra, college math is like super difficult So it's really sticking through it and you know Committing to what I want to do or just in general like the  [00:46:47] Eleanor Cote: coursework You're totally capable of doing it. You are more than capable and also going to a big institution Like UT, I had so many resources, so I'm not too sure, where, do you know where you want to go right now, or do you have any idea? I want to go to UT. I'd love to hear that, okay. Woo! Hakam! Yeah, UT, love UT. They have so, so, so, so, so many resources. Even the geology department, I think they have tutoring now available specifically for geology majors that are doing You know chemistry like intro to chemistry courses or intro to math courses because those are the weed out courses, right? For whatever reason, I don't know what evil people are conspiring against freshmen at UT It's okay. I never lose. But they were like, let's make this really hard, really difficult, make people want to drop out, right? You gotta push through, girl. You gotta push through. It's gonna be hard, and it is hard, and it's challenging. For a reason, I mean, it's A SimDegree is challenging, but you are more than capable of doing it, and If you don't do well as somebody who was like a perfectionist, I mean, I was a valedictorian in high school, like, I was not used to making anything lower than like a 97, so I'm sure you can understand how shocked I was whenever I received my first letter grade and it was Alright, my first, my first grade in, what was it, chemistry? And it was like a 41?  [00:48:21] Diya Gaur: Mm hmm.  [00:48:21] Eleanor Cote: I think, girl, I cried all the way back to Jester. I cried all the way back home. All the way back home. And then I received another 40 something. Received a 30 something. I think I made a 38 on one of my tests. Yeah. So, as somebody who was not used to failing, I had to think, okay. One foot in front of the other, Eleanor, work harder. And I did, and I retook chemistry, and I ended up making, I think, like, a B or something. And I realized B's also get degrees. C's also get degrees. If you pass, you should just take it and run with it. And you think, okay, I will be better next time, or I will do better on the next exam, but It's okay. College will humble you. It really does. It humbles even the most ambitious, uh, like, straight A students. It really, it really has its ways of getting into you, but you really just have to be strong, stay committed, see the vision. [00:49:25] Diya Gaur: Yes,  [00:49:26] Eleanor Cote: exactly. Hustle. You got it. You got it, girl. Yeah. But also have fun, right? You're there to have fun. Yeah. And enjoy yourself. Join clubs. There's like, the Undergraduate Geological Society. You can join that. Geoforce Longhorns, we have a club. Yeah. At UT, we give free pizza and dinner and have speakers and paint rocks and stuff, so like, have fun too. Oh, that's so cute. I will expect to see you there, Dia. Yes,  [00:49:55] Diya Gaur: you will see me there, for sure. Amazing! Yes, you will, no, you will definitely see me there. Painting the rocks, yes. So, I mean, in terms of studying geology at UT, I mean, what does UT do, like, best, like, what is really special about UT Geology compared to all the other geoscience programs across the U. S.? [00:50:17] Eleanor Cote: Well, um, besides being ranked one of the best geology schools in the nation, um, which they deserve their title because they have really, really awesome faculty members, um, they also have a really unique way of doing, like, the in field sort of learning, and so their field camp, I know that they've So I can't speak on it necessarily because I haven't been on their new and improved sort of field camp, but whenever I was Still a student. Um, we did six weeks out in the field, which is a long time, but a lot of other camps, or a lot of other, um, schools, they'll only do, like, up to three weeks maybe, and like, that's, that's a long time out in the field for them. Um, so, UT now, um, Specifically, Jackson School of Geosciences, they offer, it's like three weeks, I think your sophomore year, and now three weeks your junior year, but you do a lot of fieldwork, and so you really get to be outside and study outside, which is what interests a lot of people, and like, gets a lot of people into geology, is because they want to work outside, or they like being outside, they want to travel. On top of that, UT also offers a lot of really interesting classes. So they have a lot of different geoscientists in different disciplines. And so I know that they offer, I think they do like an environmental science degree route. You can, so you can do general geosciences, which is what I did. You can go into, uh, environmental sciences. So you will be doing, I think, classes in the sustainability department. And in like the College of Liberal Arts, learning about sustainability in conjunction with geosciences. I know there is a geophysics route, and so you're taking more math and physics, um, heavy classes. And then there is a petroleum geosystems engineering route, um, so you're taking classes. in the geology department in conjunction with classes in the engineering school. And then I think they also just added in a climate track. I did see that on the website,  [00:52:25] Diya Gaur: yeah.  [00:52:26] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, I haven't, I haven't looked into it too closely. I probably should because we have a lot of students now at the Jackson School and I should be seeing what they're up to. Um, on top of that, those are just like the set tracks they have, right? I think there's also an education route, maybe. where you take classes with education as well. But on top of that, if you are somebody who is like, I want to do geology, but I also want to learn about government, which I had a girl who I graduated with, who wanted to go into policy, like geoscience, um, scientific policy and go to law school. The geoscience department really, really works with you to kind of Make your own sort of degree plan. I'm talking about this whenever I was a student, things could have changed. I know there's been some turnover, but um, from what I remember, it's very customizable and you can kind of, I mean, there's obviously classes that like you have to take for your degree plan, but there's a lot of wiggle room to kind of do what you want and learn about what you want. And there are a lot of options because it's one of the best schools and we have a lot of faculty members who are super awesome. And. teach very well. There are a lot of different classes as opposed to going to a smaller school where not that much is offered, right? And then there are opportunities to go study elsewhere and do field work elsewhere. And so a lot of these faculty members will have grant money and will be able to take students out into the field, whether that's in the US or in another country. And so I had friends who were in Morocco and went down to South America and, you know, went over, I think, They did a trip to Switzerland. Um, they also have honors clubs and the Jackson Scholars Club. They do international trips too. So, I think with going to a university like UT, who just has a lot of people with big credentials, um, you get access to a lot more. compared to going to a smaller school that doesn't maybe have as much or have as many people or have as much funding.  [00:54:43] Diya Gaur: Right. And also that's like one thing that interests me a lot about going to UT, just like the amount of classes which are offered to you and just like the ability to explore what you want to do. So I mean, as like someone who wants to go to UT, that's like something I look the most forward to. And also like, you know, the international trips as well, like, I recently took, um, a trip to Austria over the summer. It was like an exchange program. Just being able to see the natural scenery on, really, the other side of the world, it's something that's, like, so fascinating to me, and honestly, I'm, like, in complete awe every time I see, like, mountains, volcanoes, because it's really, like, the force of nature at work, and, you know, for me to think that, Well, we live on this planet, but we really also, at the same time, don't know much about it. I think that is one thing we need to change. Like, that needs to be changed ASAP.  [00:55:39] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, there is so much to explore, so much to see. Whenever you do geology, like, the world is your office. So, the world is really your oyster. Like, you can do whatever you want, you can go wherever you want, study whatever you want. And, like, you got the whole world. And the planets! You can go out of you can go out of out of Earth and study other planets. I know people who do that, too. So, no, that is so true. Like, actually, even just for just describing you. Yeah. Like, actually, I don't know why  [00:56:09] Diya Gaur: I didn't mention this earlier, but also for my 12th grade project, we did both Earth and Mars, which was like actually super cool. Like we came up with this like. Kind of last minute, but we were like, kind of just all brainstorming, like, me and my group. Um, we were brainstorming things that we would be interested in researching about and, like, wanting to apply that. So we're like, you know, how about we think a little bit outside of the box and go past Earth? You know, in geology, we really just have learned about things on Earth, but why not take it one step further and do our own research about, like, Mars? So we were, like, studying the western ice sheet of Antarctica and also comparing that to the southern polar ice cap of Mars, and what specifically we were looking for was, like, the geothermal heat flux in these Python models, which we Created, and just like, coming up with an evaluation of that, and if life on Mars is sustainable based on what we know of like, the composition, or like, the chemical composition of the ice cap. So, there's just so many ways that you can take it, and honestly, that was really fascinating, like, I really love that part of, you know, the Academy, and just geology in general, like, whatever we have on Earth, we can also see if we can apply that in other systems, like, Mars, and just seeing if life is sustainable on other planets. Really, really interesting and fascinating to me. Like, I feel like I've said that a lot, like, the past couple of, like, topics we've talked about, but, you know, there's just so much of geology which is so interesting, like, there is just so much to it and that you can learn from. And that's what I love so much about the field in general. [00:57:53] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely. And I would really encourage you, I mean, do you have a specific subfield that, like, you, that specifically piques your interest, or do you, do you think you're gonna go in and just kind of take classes and see what, what you land on?  [00:58:05] Diya Gaur: I really like geobiology, like, I mean, the intersection of both geology and biology. Like for me, I mean, I really just, I mean, those are just the two things I really love learning about. So there are a couple of schools where you can do research on that, like as an undergraduate student. And I think at UT there were, I think we talked about this, um, during the 12th grade academy, but there are a couple of people, I don't remember if they were professors or researchers who also do a bit more like specialized, um, research on that subject. [00:58:40] Eleanor Cote: I know a girl that I went to school with. She was doing research on These little microbes in caves. Um, so that's, it exists, honestly. Shoot me an email on Monday and I will, I will, or I guess it's Tuesday. Oh, I thought it was Thursday. Shoot me an email tomorrow and I can. Start looking into people who do that and see if I can match you up. [00:59:10] Diya Gaur: That would be great. Thank you so much Yeah,  [00:59:12] Eleanor Cote: absolutely.  [00:59:13] Diya Gaur: Do you have any questions for me, by the way?  [00:59:16] Eleanor Cote: Um, I do want to know so I I know we talked a bit about this on the 12th grade Academy But what made you start this podcast? Was it just because you wanted to you know, do more outreach or or what was it? For  [00:59:33] Diya Gaur: me like when I talk about geology to my peers in school I'll always like get like A look from them, like, oh, what's that? I've never heard of that before. And so, not everyone knew, like, going into 8th grade, or just like 9th grade. You know, whatever grade level. That geology was a program that was available for them. So I feel like that's just at my school when like all these kids went to HIC for middle school and you guys came and did the outreach to us like coming into your science classes. That's like one thing, but I think one aspect which I really wanted to focus on was making education about geology more accessible to students. And that's just like, across the world, and podcasts is like one of those ways that you can get the word like, out there, really. You don't have to be in a specific region for it, you, you know. really can, it's like virtual, it's digital, it's available across the world. And so for me, it's just making that love for geology, which I have available, and like kind of instill that passion in other students as well. Because there's a lot of people out there right now who don't know what they want to do. But you know, maybe if they learn about geology, and what exactly geologists do, maybe it will inspire them to pursue a career in the field and you know, find what they love in the future. So yeah, so I kind of want to give back, yeah. [01:01:00] Eleanor Cote: Amazing! Girl, you're gonna have to come work for us at GeoForce. [01:01:06] Diya Gaur: No, I am. I’m going to come back as a counselor.  [01:01:08] Eleanor Cote: Girl, come take my job.  [01:01:09] Diya Gaur: think I already told Jennifer this, but I'm definitely gonna come back to GeoForce as a counselor. Like, I already have my plans to apply, so I love that. That's  [01:01:17] Eleanor Cote: amazing. I will look forward to working with you. Yes. Go easy on that application, please. I, yeah, just mentioned Eleanor was on the podcast, and so, um, just mentioned she has a podcast. I think we'll know who it is. Yeah.  [01:01:33] Diya Gaur: No, I mean, I've talked to Mitchell from, like, he does the 12th grade, like, speaking thingy. You are doing 11th grade, Jennifer did 10th grade, and Jasmine did 9th grade, so I have, like, all of the puzzle pieces put together, and so, yeah. Perfect. We just need to talk to Dr. Turner and, you know, get an overview of the entire program, so, yeah.  [01:01:59] Eleanor Cote: Leah is just a Big ball of knowledge and she is awesome to talk to. I remember talking to her on that project I worked on with the broader impact class whenever I was a senior in college and I just remember being like, oh my gosh This woman is frickin phenomenal. So she is one of Big inspiration. I look forward to hearing that podcast that you got with her. Yeah,  [01:02:24] Diya Gaur: no, she's so amazing and I feel like also just like the values like really align like the reason why I started this project or the podcast in general and also what she's trying to achieve through GeoForce, I think, you know, the missions really align together when you kind of see it in retrospect. So yeah,  [01:02:42] Eleanor Cote: absolutely. Absolutely.  [01:02:45] Diya Gaur: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. This was fun. So thank you for joining the podcast, Eleanor. This is the Art of Subduction ,Diya Out.  

What do soccer, summer camps, and volcanoes have in common? For Mitchel Lambert, they all came together in the perfect storm to shape his role as a coordinator for GeoForce. In this episode, Mitchel opens up about his unexpected journey from sports administration to guiding high school students through the wild world of geology. From drone mapping to discussions about earthquakes, we dive into how GeoForce takes learning outside the classroom and shows students the real impact of geoscience on their lives. Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu —————— Transcript Personal Experiences and Reflections [00:24:20] Diya Gaur: What was one of your favorite, like, moments during the 12th grade academy? There were just so many. If I were to answer the question myself, I think one thing, not my favorite, but something memorable that I remember is that when we were stuck at the vending machines on the first day of camp, um, I was with my best friend Nadia, who you also know, and we went to go buy some snacks from the vending machines, and so we were trying to buy multiple items at once and then, you know, It just wouldn't dispense, and so Jennifer almost came up and checked on us, like, Okay, like, what is going on? And, I mean, it's just, kind of those moments that you also carry, like, as a GeoForce student, the interactions with staff members, fellow GeoForce people, it's just amazing, and so that's, like, a lot of things that I can take away from it. You know, my interactions with people, like my fellow students there, the staff members, as well as the guest speakers. Like, I've had such amazing conversations with some of the, like, guest speakers and also the research group leads and mentors, which we had at the Kiesling Lab, which is where I was doing the ice sheet modeling at J. J. Pickle. I just had so much of, like, meaningful conversation added to my experience there. It kind of just gave me another fresh perspective into the geologies. So I mean, that's super memorable and like one of my favorite parts of geology and geoforce. So I want to ask that question to you. What is your favorite part of geoforce, more specific to the 12th grade academy?  [00:25:48] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so I, pre summer, um, Jennifer and I had a number of conversations with Jamie Austin who, you know, has been a part of geoforce for a long time. He's been working at UTIG for 46 years. Like he has been around from geoforce. Um, early on, he used to lead every single one of our 12th grade academies, and what he would do, he was telling us, like, he would make students stand up at the front, in front of all of their peers, and tell them, do their career aspiration pitch, of like, this is who I am, like, this is where I'm from, I, this is why I initially got involved in GeoForce, you know, and this is what I wanna do with my, you know, when I go to school, when I go to college, this is what I wanna study, and this is what I wanna do for my career. Um, and he was like, I'm gonna make them stand up in front of everybody. In my head, I'm like, I am the a huge extrovert, I'm here for it. I have worked with so many kids who are like not about it at all and speak in front of people, and I'm like, how is this gonna go? He is like certain that this is gonna work, and I am like, I don't know if this is gonna work, but like, night one of that first group that went up, when Tim Gouge's group went up, and they all, like, had been practicing throughout the day, and they all crushed it, I was like, oh, this is gonna be, like, meaningful, to, like, sit here and listen to all the students and have them, you know, talk about, you know, how they got engaged with GeoForce, what they wanna do, um, hearing all these people saying, like, oh, I'm gonna go, uh, be a cardiac surgeon, or I'm gonna do Neurosurgery, or I'm gonna go into geosciences. I'm gonna be a geophysicist and study earthquakes specifically. Having all the students stand up and go and present, like, this is what I'm gonna do, and, like, by and large, everybody crushed it, like, got up there, and it was super cool to, like, see What brought people to GeoForce? So many people were like, oh, my mom signed me up and made me go. Like, that was so many people. And they're like, and of course, Jamie would be like, okay, but did you enjoy it? And they're like, oh, yeah, I had a great time. It was fantastic. Like, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. So that was super cool for me of getting to like, see and listen and kind of learn a little bit about all that. I also, like, as you have seen on the different academies, enjoy getting to know the students, getting to, like, talk with them, um, in different ways. I love the unstructured mealtimes of walking, er, like, during unstructured times like mealtimes, where I can walk around and talk to different groups of students and everything. And there were a crew of students that were from the southwest that had gone out to the coast for three days, and so I saw them, like, Sunday, the beginning of Monday morning, and then they peaced out on Tuesday. And it's like, Friday, they've gotten back, and I went over and talked with them, and I addressed them by name, and they're like, what, how do you know my name? like, kid, I'm good at my job! What do you mean, how do you, how do I know your, I need to know your name! Like, you don't just disappear because you went to the coast! True,  [00:28:33] Diya Gaur: yeah, I mean, yeah,  [00:28:35] Mitchel Lambert: like It's just like, those little, those little interactions is, are great, and it's like, why I love working with students so much. Just those interactions here and there that we have, like, just throughout the week, I find super rewarding and invigorating.  [00:28:49] Diya Gaur: Yeah, like, me as well, like, I also really vividly remember having to go up and present my speech, um, in front of, like, 200 kids. No, was it 200 kids? 117. Yeah. Yeah, 150. Yeah.  [00:29:03] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, 150 with all staff. [00:29:05] Diya Gaur: Yeah, so about 150 people, like, that was, that was a lot. I mean, at first I was like, kind of nervous to go up there, but it's really that moment where you're like, Okay, so everyone in the room has done this, and so this is kind of what you need to do, like, going into life, like, you have to know how to talk to people, and so, you know, it's like, in that kind of way that I felt kind of empowered by it at the end, like, Oh yeah, I survived my two minute speech, which I was like really dreading like in the beginning, but honestly when I went up there and talked to my peers, it really wasn't that bad. Instead, it was like kind of fun. And I also really loved hearing about like all of their different experiences because, you know, we are from all over Texas, like we have so many different cultural, socioeconomic types of backgrounds, and so it's like really meaningful to be able to hear You know, other peers like our age see what they want to do in life, like their aspirations and their motivations for it. So that's like something that you don't hear every day and it was nice because there's so many people in the academy already and it's hard to kind of know what they want to do exactly and so it kind of gave you a better understanding of them. Yeah, I really love that.  [00:30:12] Mitchel Lambert: And two, I was so surprised.  [00:30:14] Diya Gaur: Yeah, in your experience, like, how has working with GeoForce, and like, you know, talking, engaging with all these students, like, changed your perspective on geology and education overall? [00:30:26] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, when I was applying for the job, I was like, I, I know a bit about geology, like, because my grandfather was a geologist for Exxon, and he would tell me all the things, and literally what it boils down to is geologists lick rocks. And try and figure out what they are. I was like, that's, that's all of my knowledge of geology. Like, I know there are different layers, um, and everything like that. And last year, on my ninth grades, because those were the first academies that I went on, um, we had a bigger focus on quizzes and like, assessments. And so I would take the tests and quizzes with the kids and be like, alright, let's see if you can beat me. And a lot of times they could. I got a lot of 7 out of 10s. And so, it was like, I, I was like, open up, I'm like, hey, look kids, I am learning this stuff just as well as you are, right here, right now. Um, and, there are some things, like, I know most, if there's a rock I can see in Texas, it's almost always limestone. Like, I got that. True! There, there's small little things that I'm like, I've picked up on. Um, you know, I, like, have an appreciation for all of the folks who teach, like, our instructors, um, who are folks who, like, are Ph. D. candidates or have their Ph. D. and are current researchers and instructors for college students. Talking with them and hearing, you know, how much they care about their specific, very niche aspects of geosciences has been super enlightening. We, we joke, like, with some of the different instructors, um, we sit here and joke about they'll go into really in depth stuff about Mars and how it doesn't have tectonics, da da da da da, and I'll sit over here and I'll just be like, nerd, and then at the same time he's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, uh huh, and what, tell me about MLS and this new roster thing that you're talking about. And so I'll go off for 10 minutes about, you know, MLS roster constructions and how the Domestic Soccer League works, and I hear, NERD, and it's just those little things of like the little aspects of the things that we truly care about and are passionate about and like wanting to learn. And the folks like at GeoForce who come and bring their expertise are so willing and ready to share it with the students and they want the students to learn and ask them questions. And make sure that they're The students are understanding what they're teaching. All of them are like, With the education coaches, with us, it's like, hey, is this at a level that the students can understand? Are they actually getting something from this? Really, like, I have learned stuff here and there. I can sort of, kind of, understand the general outlines for all of the different academies that we go on. I can answer some questions here and there that kids ask, but really what I've kind of, you know, always known is like, there are people on these trips that want to teach these students, that want to get them engaged, that want to find the specific aspects of geosciences, um, that will connect with each student. There might be one kid who is like, nuts about paleontology, and a different kid who is nuts about earthquakes, and then it's You know, the instructor's role to figure out, okay, how do I get both of these kids engaged throughout the academy, throughout the week? And transfer this knowledge that I have, that we're gonna touch on throughout the week, um, to these students in a way that, like, is manageable for them and is engaging for them, like, what does that look like? So that has been, like, super great to see how the instructors and how the education coaches get the different kids engaged to really care about geology, um, because they have that passion, they have, you know, That drive that they want to learn more and they want to share that with the students. Um, and I try and pick up stuff here and there. I will ask questions on the bus ride because I generally sit up front with the instructors and ECs and be like, okay, so what are we actually seeing? Like, what, what am I looking at outside of this window? Um, To try and, you know, potentially throughout the years, kind of get some more information so I can answer more and more questions, um, that these kids ask. Cause like, year one, they'd come up and I'd say, great, I pay somebody else to know that information. Go talk to your instructor, go talk to your EC. Um, I slowly noticed this year I was able to answer more of these questions as I've gone on more of these Geovorce trips.  [00:34:27] Diya Gaur: Yeah, so it's like, not just an experience for us, but it's also an experience for you, which is like, really nice to hear as well. So it's like, not just for the kids, but yeah, you're also learning things as an adult, like someone who's already graduated and didn't go through the geosciences. That's like, really nice to hear. And so you mentioned like, those nerd moments, but do you see those ever like, happening in the kids, like, in their conversations with you, or, you know, have you seen that passion overall, over the course of your last few trips? Yeah, definitely.  [00:34:53] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, and there are a couple, like, specific students that, like, sometimes I think of, um, with different topics that come up. Like, there's some folks who, like, have known from day one. There was a student, like, on the 12th grade this year who has been like, I have wanted to study earthquakes and be a seismologist since I was four. And it's like, oh, okay. So like, this is like a way that you connect. And she was in the, the group with, uh, Nicola Tosato, learning about earthquakes, doing those experiments, and it was like, great. Like, I, I knew, you know, like, after we had talked that you were in the right group. And did so much work, was like, very engaged throughout that whole time. Um, there are those specific students that like, latch on to certain aspects. Um, you know, whether that's paleontology, whether that's, there are kids that are like, No, I wanna go, like, do oil and gas. Like, I wanna go figure out You know, how do we do transition to different energies? Um, all kinds of different kids latch on to all kinds of different aspects of geosciences, um, and GeoForce, like, exposes kids to so many different fields of geoscientists, whether it's being a geophysicist, whether it's being, like, an actual geologist, um, and going and studying rocks, whether it's that science communication aspect that you were describing earlier where your friend, like, made a brochure for, um, the 12th grade, like, how do we communicate the science that we know? Um, there are so many different ways that GeoForce engages students to try and like help them figure out is there something in geosciences that you relate to, that you latch on to, that you want to kind of go and do and study, um, or learn more about your time here with GeoForce as well as potentially going forward if you want to go and do that, you know, in college or for a career after. What does that look like for you?  [00:36:37] Diya Gaur: Yeah, so in your opinion, why should the younger Gen Z go into the field of geology and like just learn and be more interested in it and studying it overall?  [00:36:47] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so I, it is super important to like know what is happening around us, just in general. Firmly believe that in lots of aspects of life. And, I don't know if you know this, but we are sitting on a big old rock, flying through space, and like, there's lots of things that happen on Earth, um, so many different processes that affect us. I mean, you and I, we're over here in Texas, we don't live in like an earthquake prone area, um, but, you know, those different geological processes, like, can have real impacts on lots of folks lives. You talked about the Ring of Fire, um, the earthquakes, volcanoes that we learned about last year on the 11th grade trip, like, has tangential impacts. To, like, so many people that live around that area, where, you know, that is something that we need people to know about and to learn about. Meteorologists that are working are also, like, related to geoscientists, like, knowing the weather and the earth processes and all that, um, is part of geosciences. Um, hydrology, the people, like, how do we get all of the water to the different places and make sure that it's clean? Like, hydrology is in geosciences. There's so many different ways. Every time, like, I go and talk to students for the recruiting pitch, I get up on my little soapbox talking about like what is geologists um and i say hey great who here has something that they use every day that has a battery in it and like of course every kid raises their hand they've got all the devices with all the different batteries it's like yeah finding all of this stuff for those batteries Is geoscientists trying to figure out how we get batteries smaller, how we make them last longer, are problems that geosciences are facing here and now that affect all of us in our daily lives. And there's so many different ways that geoscience touches, you know, you and I every day that we have no idea about. Um, but there are people that, that are doing that work to make sure that We are progressing in terms of technology. We are understanding and better equipping the populace in different areas. You know, how do we deal with natural disasters? How do we plan for this? How do we figure out, like, can we get better at predicting them? That's what that earthquake project for the 12th grade did. They were trying to study, like, how can we study, like, Use this data to try and figure out how to predict earthquakes in the future. Um, so different things that we do here at GeoForce to get kids to understand like there are so many different ways that geosciences touches your life. Um, and we want to get kids engaged in, in that, in that learning about what is going on around them.  [00:39:10] Diya Gaur: Yeah, for sure. And like also for me, I don't think I would have put as much of effort into understanding how the earth works if it weren't for GeoForce and I think like that's like a big part or like a lot of students who are in GeoForce can also relate to that statement as well. It's just so much of a more in depth understanding in GeoForce than what you learn in school and that's like also what's really amazing about the program like you're getting educated from people who are actually like In the field, who are experts on what they do, so it's really nice to hear from them as well, and just overall, like, one of the main takeaways I took away from my 10th grade academy was Miss Stephanie Suarez, she was showing us, like, rocks on the moon, and that's What partially kind of influenced my 12th grade research project with, you know, comparing the ice sheet of West Antarctica with Mars. Geoforce is an amazing opportunity, but not many people, like, who are just in other places of the world, they don't have as much access to learning about geology and the specific processes of it.  Advice for Aspiring Geoscientists [00:40:12] Diya Gaur: So what advice would you give to the students who are interested in geology, but like, unsure of how to get started or what opportunities are available for them in like, a career for geology? [00:40:25] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so there are a couple of different ways. There aren't many programs like GeoForce in general that exist. Um, unfortunately, like, it's just not one of those things that is super publicized like geosciences. Um, we're one of very few programs like us, um, in America in general. However, there are lots of different schools and colleges that have, um, geoscience departments. Um, one of the things that we do with students who, like, express interest on different academies, you know, I had a student who, on our, one of our 10th grade academies, was talking with the instructor, was like, hey, how do I do something where, you know, I'm working in earth sciences or geosciences, but I'm helping people. Um, and so, and that instructor connected myself with another person, uh, that they work with over at the BEG, the Bureau of Economic Geology. And was like, oh, this person, like, has a shared, like, similar experience as the kid, as well as, like, is actively doing work, um, understanding, you know, what people's needs are in terms of environmental science that is affecting them, um, and what is, what does that look like in their life. Um, there are so many different schools that, like, colleges and universities that have geoscience programs around it. Um, and if you are really curious, like Send some cold emails. I know it is uncomfortable. Like, figure out, like, who around you, like, are doing the work that you're interested in. If you are someone who, like, really loves earthquakes and lives, like, in Kansas and Nebraska, like, you're not gonna get a lot of field experience with that. Like, and there may be some, a different way that you have to relate with that. Um, there are lots of places, like, um, and groups and communities online that you can get in touch with. The internet is a glorious thing in order to connect folks, um, of different passions and different backgrounds, um, to try and kind of come together and say like, oh, I, this is something that I am actually interested in, um, you know, how can I get engaged and involved in that. As well as like, there are books, so many books in all of libraries, like, all kinds of access. You can access like, um, PDF files, uh, research papers, um, a lot of schools have connections with that, like, um, with scholar. Oh, I can't remember, it's been so long since I was in school, but what was that, there's like a scholar database that we had access to when I was in high school, where we could like, look, read papers and things while we were doing research for books and all that, and for projects, like, you have those resources that are like, available to you, it does take some digging sometimes. [00:42:54] Diya Gaur: Right, right. So, you are an LSU graduate, correct?  [00:42:58] Mitchel Lambert: Absolutely. Go Tigers. Grew up in Baton Rouge, went to LSU, I'm drinking out of an LSU cup right now, you know.  [00:43:06] Diya Gaur: Yeah, so, I mean, what are the opportunities to study geology at LSU? Do you know, like, per se?  [00:43:12] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so, my roommate for two years was a geology major at LSU. We have a super cool building there. Um, that, like, has all kinds of fossils and things in it. Like, as any, like, geology building does, they want to show off the rocks, they want to show off the fossils. Like, any, like, school that has a geology building has some cool things in that building. He did a lot of work at the Mississippi River. Um, you know, very prominent feature in Louisiana, in Baton Rouge especially. Um, did a lot of work there, a lot of work sampling there. We also had a field camp where, you know, lots of geology students, during their time in college, they go out to Colorado or Utah or Wyoming, um, and do like three to six weeks of fieldwork up there, um, at a site studying. He was over in Colorado for six weeks of one of his summers. Doing all kinds of stuff. I don't exactly remember what all he did, but what I do remember was he drove back down to Tucson, Arizona, and I flew over and we road tripped back after like his six weeks of field camp. So I like heard all of the stories and everything as we were like coming back for the two days of driving, but yeah, like he really enjoyed it. He loved water and like wanting to protect waterways. He grew up north of New Orleans, in like, the, the sticks, basically, um, in Louisiana. Water was very important. His father, like, lives on a house on stilts over water, like, he drives a boat to get to the car, like, that, that is, like, what he grew up in, and so, like, water was super important for him, um, and that is what he studied in that context there. He, like, still works right, right there on the Mississippi River. Understanding the Mississippi River itself. Um, so that is the geology context that I know at LSU, I'm sure they do lots of other things. Um, but that's what my roommate did, he was all about water, and so I, you know, also learned a small bit about water. [00:45:05] Diya Gaur: Yeah, that's actually like super cool and interesting, I like that. It's amazing. So I want to be mindful of your time, but one more question for you is that if you were able to go back in time and participate in GeoForce's 12th grade academy, What research project would you pick and why?  [00:45:24] Mitchel Lambert: So I would have gone with Tim Gouge's group to the coast. Um, that group did drones, um, and LiDAR and everything along those lines, which is like they try and do images of the beach to see, you know, what does it look like now? What did it look like in years past? His group did the same thing last year, um, where, and it was, they were going to track the changes and everything. But really why I would have gone is because it is, they stayed in Clute. Uh, Texas and Lake Jackson, Texas, which is where Momo and Popo live, um, and I grew up, like, the beaches where they were at are the beaches that I grew up on, so I would go down because I love that area of Texas a lot, um, spend a whole lot of time there, and I love the beach. I'm a beach person, like, I wanna go sit out in the sun, um, and sweat and play in the, the very gross water, um, Uh, that's over down there, like at Surfside and Bryan and Sargent Beach and all that. Uh, so, it's not necessarily for all of the specific geology content. Um, it's more for going to the beach and being in an area of Texas that I enjoy. And, you know, maybe going to eat at some really nice places. Cause I sent them all of like the, the recommendations for all of the restaurants. I was like, I know these. Go here, here, here, and here, and here. And so, I like all those restaurants. I'd love to go there. Um, I much more like people motivated than like the geology motivated. Cause you know, I'm not a geologist.  [00:46:43] Diya Gaur: Yeah, yeah. For sure.  Conclusion and Final Thoughts [00:46:45] Diya Gaur: Well, Mitchell, thank you so much for coming on my podcast, but before we end, do you have any questions for me?  [00:46:52] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, um, what, like, what kept you going at GeoForce? Why did you keep coming back?  [00:47:00] Diya Gaur: Well, I think one, it's like my friends were one of the biggest motivators, so I'm kind of like you, I'm like a huge extrovert, I just love to talk, and I talk a lot. So, for me, it's like, I had people from my middle school who applied to GeoForce with me, and when I was in 8th grade, it was Miss Jasmine Gulick who came to my school and discussed GeoForce, and so, like, to me, Just being able to meet so many new people on my trips and like learn from them is like one thing that kind of just kept me going. And like one of my hobbies as well is just to hike, like see the great nature and the outdoors. So being able to visit places like, you know, the Grand Canyon, Zion National Park, Even go to UT Austin and spend like a week there in the dorms It was all such a like a different experience than what I would usually get like going places with my parents So it was just like good to have that sort of independence and be able to experience it Just being in the present in the moment like seeing the earth around you and being surrounded by like people who are very Like minded to you as well. [00:48:07] Mitchel Lambert: Um, I think I have one maybe two more questions Um, but like, what was your favorite stop that you went to of all the different academies?  [00:48:15] Diya Gaur: Ooh, okay, that's a good question. I want to say I really liked when we went on the Obsidian Trail. Like, when we were in Oregon, like, I think that was just really interesting. I've never seen anything like it before, and it was really so unique to just see all of these shards of Obsidian, and you're just walking up there, and you're like, Try not to get cut.  [00:48:37] Mitchel Lambert: That's part of it, yeah.  [00:48:38] Diya Gaur: But that's like one part of it. It was so beautiful like and you could just like be at the top of where the obsidian was and you would just look around you could see just all of these different like mountains that we were just talking about in the lectures and seeing them in real life like that was really cool for me. And then also one more thing was Crater Lake. Like, that was really cool. It was so beautiful at Crater Lake, just so gorgeous, and it was amazing, like, it just felt so unreal to be there, it's like, wow, this is the beauty of Earth and nature, which we are living in, like, this is just amazing, and it's so unique, just to be a human, like, living on Earth, and, you know, being in an age where you can just experience and see all of these geological formations. So that's what kept me going for sure.  [00:49:26] Mitchel Lambert: I love that. And then my, my actual last question is like, how would you summarize like your experience with GeoForce? Like as a student, cause I, I don't have that experience. Like how would you summarize your experience as a student at GeoForce?  [00:49:40] Diya Gaur: That's a really good question, actually. So, my first year of GeoForce, like, the 9th grade academy, we were actually on COVID. And, what I really remember from that was like, oh hey, we're all online, we're doing introductions, and we're learning about stuff, but, like, I want to see the real deal in real life. And so, like, I mean, that first year was kind of just rocky for everyone, and so, it made, like, Me still interested in it like the content what we were learning, but I wanted to go out and experience it So I was kind of stuck with the program and then 10th grade year is when we went to like Arizona Nevada and Utah just to see like the formations of the canyons like I think I learned a lot from being able to experience it hands on as a student because We would have lectures every night and then you would just go and see the next day and like, yeah, I can actually apply this into um, what we're seeing right in front of us. And that was like really important for me because I think I'm more of a hands on learner, like I need to visualize it in order to understand. And so being able to see like the formations right in front of me, it was like super helpful in helping me retain like everything that I learned. And then 11th grade, which was my favorite academy out of all of them, I would just summarize it as amazement, like, I was in awe every day of that academy. It was just so amazing to see just really everything that we did. It was such a great experience and opportunity. And 12th grade is really when we were able to put everything that we learned from previous years together. So it was really nice to see what other people came up with and what we did in our labs ourselves. I will say that it was super rewarding to, like, learn Python and actually be able to be hands on with, like, a research lead and, you know, work on your project. So, I mean, there's just so much to GeoForce, like, I don't even know if I could summarize it in a couple of words, but there's, it's just such an amazing and, like, rewarding program overall, like, I really just love everything about it. [00:51:40] Mitchel Lambert: That's great. That makes my heart happy that, like, you know, you got to experience so much of it, like, admittedly, first year COVID, and then being like, I still want to go and see what it's like. Um, I'm glad, like, you had all of the friends and connections as well as, like, the growth and understanding in geosciences and your passion of, like, you know, maybe this is something I do want to go into and study. Um, that, it sounds like the program works for, for you specifically. So I, I like that. I'll take that any day of the week.  [00:52:07] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and I feel like, I mean, if it weren't for GeoForce, I wouldn't be where I am today, like, applying to colleges for geology specifically, and even making a geology podcast where I'm making, you know, learning about geology a bit more accessible, so, I think that's like, so, something that's super important, like, for kids who don't have GeoForce, Get involved in geology and geosciences. It's more than just rocks. It's amazing. I believe everyone can learn from it and you know, it's really imperative that we do.  [00:52:34] Mitchel Lambert: Absolutely.  [00:52:35] Diya Gaur: Well, thank you so much Mitchell. This was such an amazing interview. I'm really glad that you were able to come and we were able to talk a bit more about GeoForce.  [00:52:44] Mitchel Lambert: Me too. It's great.  [00:52:46] Diya Gaur: I love it. Yeah. Thank you so much.  [00:52:48] Mitchel Lambert: Thank you. Have a great day.  [00:52:49] Diya Gaur: Yes, you too.

Join us on this episode of The Art of Subduction as we explore the various opportunities youth outreach programs like GeoFORCE offer to aspiring geologists! Diya and Mitchel share their journeys of their involvement in geology and youth outreach programs, and how these experiences sparked their passion for what they do! Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions (or want to be featured)? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu   Transcript: Introduction and Personal Interests in Geosciences [00:00:00] Mitchel Lambert: Was there a specific topic or, um, thing that, like, you latched onto and was like, oh, this, I want to learn more about this, or this is what I want to do, geosciences, or this changed my mind? Like, was there a specific, like, topic or, you know, lecture or field stop that kind of grabbed you?  [00:00:17] Diya Gaur: Yeah, so, okay, it kind of stems from the podcast name as well, but subduction for sure. Like, in the 11th grade academy, we kind of, like, learned about plate tectonics, because one of the main things that we were learning was And that is how these volcanoes, like mountain range, form. And for me it's just, I thought that was like, super interesting and cool, and like, one, I just don't know why, but I just think volcanoes are super cool, like, I could just keep on learning about them and like, just never get tired of it, it's just kind of been like that for me. And just also, I kind of want to pursue geobiology, and so it's like learning how geology interacts with people like us, and even just animals overall, like that's such an important, such an important aspect that we need to consider, and so it's kind of just my love for learning that kind of keeps on fueling why I wanted to go into geoforce and that type of stuff. But yeah, like, the art of subduction.  [00:01:12] Mitchel Lambert: Perfect. I love it. Meet the Hosts: Diya and Mitchell [00:01:41] Diya Gaur: Okay, so, just a bit about me. If you don't already know me, what you do. But my name is Diya, I go to Lamar High School in Houston, Texas, and I'm in 12th grade. I recently just went on GeoForce 12th grade summer academy, which was just last month, and I studied ice sheets in Western Antarctica and Mars. Can you tell me a bit about yourself, what you do in GeoForce?  [00:02:03] Mitchel Lambert: Of course, yeah, so, um, I'm Mitchell Lambert, I am a GeoForce coordinator, um, I have just finished my second summer with GeoForce, I had you both on two academies, one this summer, one last summer, um, it was great, I've done a total of eight academies, um, one, at least one with all of our different grade levels, um, so, it's been great, it's been great. I don't know anything about geology. I do all of the logistic stuff and everything like that. As you know, um, like, making sure we get from A to B, I am not the person who tells y'all what the rocks are, what we're looking at, anything along those lines.  Mitchell's Journey to GeoForce [00:02:38] Diya Gaur: So, you didn't, like, initially come from a background in geology, what did you do before becoming a GeoForce coordinator? [00:02:45] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so my, you know, degree was in sports administration, um, and I did some stuff with Rec Soccer Leagues, I was a soccer coach, gymnastics coach for a long time. Um, I have been working in summer programs, though, since I was a junior in college. And so, for the last 12 summers, I have been working in some summer program here and there. Um, I was at Project Transformation for 10 years across two different chapters, um, before coming over to, to be at GeoForce. And I worked with, like, little kids from, like, 2 to 5, elementary, youth. High school, I was the person who sat over the entire site, and then I came on in like a full time staff role and was the person who hired young adults to work with kids and teach them how to live together and how to work with kids and how to, you know, settle disputes and confrontation as well as implement good programming for the students. You know, the logistics of how in the world do we get everything set up for a summer to happen? What does that look like throughout the year? Um, and so I've been doing that for 12 years now, um, which is kind of how I got in touch with GeoForce, like, in a way of like, when looking for the next thing, and it was like, Oh, this is a camp where I don't have to know all of the things? Great, sign me up. I'm gonna go and travel and do all of that, um, and do the logistics part that I know how to do. Um, as well as, um, they were looking for, for someone who does camp, and I do camp a lot, and so it was kind of a perfect fit for me to come into GeoForce knowing that I didn't have to know anything about rocks. [00:04:15] Diya Gaur: Yeah, well, that sounds amazing, but can you tell us a bit more about how you initially got into GeoForce, like, how you became the Outreach Coordinator and how you're now coordinating the 12th Grade Academy?  [00:04:27] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so I literally was looking for a new job. It had been ten years, it was a nice round number, um, to end with my last program, and I was just looking on the UT website, and I found a posting for a summer camp position, um, that was up at Pickle Research Campus, so I didn't have to go to main campus all day, because traffic around University of Texas is terrible, and I didn't want to do that. I touched base with them after I had completed the application. I talked with John Hash, who was the previous Senior Program Coordinator. And, you know, just asked him lots of questions of what does the academy look like? Okay, we're out traveling with the students. We're taking them to all these cool places that I myself wanted to go to. Like, part of the reason I applied was that Zion, National Park, Bryce Canyon, and Crater Lake were all on my bucket list of places I wanted to go. And GeoForce was gonna pay me to take students there. I was in. I was like, great, I'm gonna apply. I'm gonna see what, what this program is like. And so I was just fortunate enough to find it on UT's like job board website. Um, and then whenever I did that, fortunate enough to, to interview well and to get the job. Um, as I said, they were looking for someone who had a camp background. Um, that was one of the specific things they were looking for. They were also looking for someone who needed, like, communications and, um, social media background, and I literally told them, don't hire me if it's for that position, I won't do well. Um, so fortunately, like, I I had that camp atmosphere. And then I got to go on a number of different academies last year, including two of the 11th grade academies, where we take folks to Oregon, and we do volcanoes, um, and tsunamis, and the Oregon coast, and get to see all those different things. And then it was with both the Austin group and the Houston group, and so it made sense for me to keep going with those students for that 12th grade program. And I already knew that I already knew two thirds of the kids, 12th grade, we bring all of the students together from all three different geographies, so I already knew two thirds of the kids that were going to be on that program, so it made sense for me to be the lead coordinator for the 12th grade academy, um, when we brought together Southwest kids, Austin kids, Houston kids, um, all together, I only had to learn like 35 40 names. Whereas, you know, Jennifer, who was not on any 11th grades, had to learn all 117 names from all the different kids. Um, so it made sense, like, and I had never seen the 12th grade before, so. I leaned on Jennifer a lot who had done 12th grade last year, um, cause she had seen it and knew what it looked like. And so that was just like, the happenstance of being on, the only person that was on to 11th grades last year, um, you know, one of which was yours, and then being able to go into that 12th grade, um, and help coordinate and do all the logistics for all the different moving pieces in order to get it up and going. [00:07:13] Diya Gaur: Right, that is such an interesting journey, actually, like, the part where you had to only learn 30 to 40 names, like, that's actually, like, amazing, like, me, myself, me personally, I'm also really bad at doing names, so, that's, like, something I can relate to for sure.  What is GeoForce Texas? [00:07:28] Diya Gaur: So, for our Gen Z listeners, who might be a bit unfamiliar with GeoForce, Could you just explain what GeoForce Texas is and what its primary mission is or functions as? [00:07:39] Mitchel Lambert: So we want to get more kids engaged in geosciences. And that's really the the prime directive of GeoForce is how do we get more kids engaged in geosciences? Literally less than half of a percent of students who enroll in college enroll in geoscience majors, and so we want to raise that number. We actively recruit current 8th graders to come see what our program looks like at like info sessions at schools or we'll go into classrooms and tell them hey this is what our program is and it is 4 week long trips throughout your high school career like the summer before your 9th grade we take students to Areas around Texas and Central Texas, like Enchanted Rock, Ink's Lake, Longhorn Cavern. We go down to the coast, um, talk about, you know, what does geoscience look like in a Texas context? Because all of our kids are from the Texas area. Most of our kids. We actively recruit in Texas. Somehow, there were kids from like, Louisiana or Arizona that find us, and if they can get here, we'll take them. But yeah, so 9th grade is all in Texas, in your home state, generally.  GeoForce Academies: A Breakdown [00:08:42] Mitchel Lambert: 10th grade we take our students to the American Southwest. We fly out to Las Vegas and we go to Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon, we go see the Grand Canyon, we see Beringer Meteor Crater, we go to Lowell Observatory, and it's lots of like, um, the different layers that we can see out there. Again, not the science y person part of it, but y'all get to see the Grand Staircase is what it's called. Um, going through the American Southwest, all of the different layers, we start at the top and kind of go down and work our way through. And there's also some planetary geology that takes place there when we talk about Beringer Meteor Crater and Lowell Observatory. Um, talking about, like, it's not just context here on Earth, but what does it look like? Um, what are other areas of geoscience you can study as well? The 11th grade trip, we take students to Oregon, we fly out to Portland, and we basically make a loop around Oregon. We hit up Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Hood, Newberry Caldera, and do the Obsidian Flow hike. We go to Crater Lake, um, we go and see the Oregon coast, because it is very different than the Texas coast and what we have here. All kinds of things to see, like, talk about volcanology, plate tectonics, we talk about tsunamis and volcanoes and natural disasters, because there are different natural disasters up there than the hurricanes that we have in Texas. Um, and then the 12th grade. We combine all of the students from all different geographies, from the Southwest Geography, from the Houston Geography, and from the Austin Geography, and we take them to UT's campus and we do like a week long research project with everybody. This last year we had nine different researchers, um, who each led their students, um, And, you know, all kinds of different things. As you said, you did the ice sheets research project. We had folks who were focusing on carbon capture. We had folks who went down to the coast and flew drones and did LIDAR to see, you know, how the coast is changing over the different years. We had folks who studied earthquakes and did, you know, simulations in the lab. All kinds of different projects. So we had nine different projects this year. That the kids got to hear about and then kind of learn about. Select, you know, what are the three I'm most interested in, and we stuck them in one of those three, um, you know, so, a lot of folks got their number one, some folks got their two, some folks got their three, but we got to, to give the students the choice, um, after hearing about all of the different projects, and then go into that for, for a week, and they work it out. You know, with those research mentors, they work with RGLs and counselors, which are like the people that GeoForce hires. Um, you know, the college age folks and the folks who are working on their master's or PhD, um, to help with some of the research learning. Um, to gather all of the data, analyze the data, and then all of the students create posters that they present at the end of the week in like groups of three or four. They present posters at the symposium, um, which is like a big, like, event to celebrate the work that they had done, as well as for them to communicate to folks, you know, what they worked on throughout the week. We invited parents to come see, um, so they got to see, you know, what, what their students had been doing as, like, the capstone of their four years in GeoForce. Um, so it was super great. We had tons of folks that came, um, to see the symposium. All of the students, like, y'all put together some incredible posters that I myself wouldn't, have never done anything along those lines. I was, like, amazed at the detail and the data and the analysis and, like, the conclusions that y'all drew from it from just, like, a week of work. [00:12:07] Diya Gaur: Yeah, for sure. And I think it's like also what's super important about GeoForce as well. So one of the initial reasons why I chose to start my podcast is because I wasn't finding many opportunities outside of GeoForce to get involved in geology. So for me, I think one big thing that GeoForce is doing is making the study, which is really so important. It's the world around us. Accessible to all these different high school students. And like, even today we can see the impact that it's had since 2005. There's so many kids who go through the GeoForce program and they end up doing the geosciences and I'm one of them. So I really love to see what you guys are doing. And I also hope to come back. Next year or the year after that as a counselor, so just truly amazing. Some of my most memorable experiences have been from GeoForce as well, like the 11th grade academy where we had the bonfire outside at the beach. That is just one thing I still carry with me and I just think that's so important. Like the sense of community and connection that you get from all of that. The geosciences, like, there's just so many ways you can take it.  [00:13:10] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, Beach Night, everybody loves Beach Night, and it's not, like, about rocks and things. It's about, I'm a people person, like, that's what I do. I always tell the folks of, like, yes, you know, oh, the rocks are great. We want to teach kids about rocks, and kids are going to keep coming back if they make friends on the trip. So, like, I, everybody loves Beach Night, like, especially our coordinators who, you know, were students in the program still talk about their Beach Nights. Um, so I'm glad that, like, it has that same impact on you of, like, oh, that was, like, something that I remember, like, and will take with me forever. [00:13:40] Diya Gaur: Yeah, for sure. So, in your opinion, this is like kind of out there, but what is your favorite GeoForce Academy out of all of them?  [00:13:47] Mitchel Lambert: I I secretly kind of like the 9th grade a lot. It's not my favorite, but it's like sneaky good, because I really like watching GeoForce Academy. Like, all of the awkward meetings of students, like, they just finished 8th grade, they're still middle schoolers, they're not high school, but like, they're meeting, like, all these new people for the first time, it's their first GeoForce experience, they don't really understand it, and as they kind of realize throughout the week what GeoForce is for them, um, and like, what the next four years could be for them, I really enjoy that, I enjoy those conversations with them of trying to understand, like, what in the world am I supposed to be doing? And I really like the idea of, like, having kids learn about the places where they live, so the whole thing about GeoForce and geosciences in their context, in their state, um, I think is really important, especially for the kids from Austin, taking them to Longhorn Cavern, to Enchanted Rock, to places that are around their home, when we go down to the coast in Corpus Christi, we can compare that a lot to the folks in Houston, um, cause they have, you know, very similar coastline, same, you know, hurricane effects, All of the, those similar experiences that they have, um, and can be like, oh, this is a way that I can learn about geosciences in my backyard. Um, my actual favorite trip is, um The Oregon trip just in general because I like volcanoes. That was one of the my fascinations when I was a kid. Um, you know, didn't turn out to be that STEM person really, but loved the idea of that like the Mount St. Helens like visit and everything. That was one of the things that I got like sucked into when I was like an elementary middle school kid of like learning, you know, all the things I could about volcanoes. Um, so that is my personal favorite as well as like that's the one where we get to race students up a dune and I get to show kids. That, you know, being 15 years older than them has a great advantage in, like, beating them in a race. So, the competitor in me really, really likes that. True. The 11th grade is my favorite, but the 9th grade is, I think, my second favorite. [00:15:47] Diya Gaur: Okay, I see. Yeah, I like the 11th grade as well. I think 11th and 12th grade have been my favorites, like, just because, like, 11th grade is so beautiful, like, you learn about, like, the Ring of Fire, and there's just, like, so much interesting stuff. It's such a versatile environment. You go from being Right at the ocean, and then like you go to seeing the on land features, like the volcanoes, and how they form, so that's like super interesting, like, you see both sides of the coin, really. Yeah.  The Importance of Hands-On Learning [00:16:14] Diya Gaur: So, I mean, in your opinion, why do you think it's so important for students to be able to go out to all these different places and learn about geology? How does it complement their learning and what they're doing in GeoForce?  [00:16:27] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so Texas, basically in the education system in Texas, the last time you have to take an earth science is like 7th grade, or like in middle school. There isn't an earth science or a geoscience, um, like mandatory class that you take in high school. Very few schools will offer something like that, um, so it is a way that, like, one of the few ways that kids can get engaged in geosciences. You know, in a way that is provided for them. Especially with GeoForce being like a free program for all the students. Um, we can take folks, um, from all kinds of different walks of life and backgrounds. Um, and take them to, to see things that they're passionate about and interested in. It's a way to engage them in, in learning, in hands on activity in the field. Literally every single place that we go, like on our academies, there is a time at least once where we set aside for them to do hands on activities. Like the ninth grade, we take them and they do The beach profiling, they do grain sizes, they do um, longshore drift, and these are like little experiments that they are running out on the beach. Um, 10th grade, we do the dam debate, and we have them, you know, say, you know, what, what would the impacts of this dam be if it were to be built now, um, split them up and say, okay, y'all, this group is going to represent farmers. Um, that are north of the dam, like, are upriver. How would that impact them? We put kids in scenarios where they have to critically think and assess, um, what they have seen on the academies, and then translate that to us in a way to, like, teach us so they know that they understand, you know, what they have seen, what they are learning, um, in those hands on experiences. It's important to take folks seriously. You know, out into the world to see those geological processes, where they're happening. So they can, you know, as we're hiking down the Grand Canyon, see the layers changing around them, um, as we go down to Uah Point. It's super important for them to get to, to have that hands on experience, um, in seeing that. And then doing the critical analysis of, you know, what are we seeing? How does that impact us? How do those processes actually work in tandem with each other? Um, cause, you know, the, the uplift and the Grand Canyon being carved by the river, you know, both happen at the same time, um, to create, like, the, the spectacle that we can see here in front of us. It's really important to get them out in the field so they can experience that for themselves. Um, I was not a great student in a classroom. I don't sit still well. It was, I had undiagnosed ADHD for a very long time. There's a reason I was, like, gravitated towards summer work and outdoor activities and, uh, like, un Formal education was because that's like where I thrived, um, as a student. And so I, you know, think it's important to give kids those opportunities outside of classroom, especially when that's not required in Texas education.  [00:19:17] Diya Gaur: Yeah, for sure. I, like, agree with that statement as well, like, I mean, sometimes it's also hard for me to just, like, sit in one place, like, get my work done on time, you know, like that, so, like, when we had the GeoForce Academies, even, like, the 12th grade ones, I don't really think I felt like, even though I was sitting in the lab, like, that I didn't want to be there, like, I really like the opportunity that the students are getting in order to be able to choose what they want to do and, you know, actively pursue it, and it has, like, such a good outcome in the end, like, you learn so many skills, So in the Western Antarctica Ice Sheet Lab, I had to code in Python in order to create this, like, big map, which is now on my research poster. But there's just so many things and facets to GeoForce that end up being so rewarding later in life. Everyone should know how to code, like, it's a skill that we all need. Need to learn in the, like, upcoming years. It's become so much more prevalent, and that's kind of something that stays with you forever. So, highly agree, and I highly recommend the GeoForce program for sure.  Guest Speakers and Mentorship [00:20:16] Diya Gaur: So, just to add on to that, like, the guest speakers, why is it important that, you know, GeoForce brings in guest speakers, and how does it, like, you know, overall kind of make the learning process a bit easier, or, you know, kind of captivate students to go into geology? [00:20:32] Mitchel Lambert: Yeah, so guest speakers look a little different on all of our academies. We have alumni mentors or corporate mentors that come and join us on our traveling academies, that 11th. Um, generally it's, you know, the alumni mentors are someone who was in the program in the same shoes as the students, who, you know, the students can ask them questions of what their experience was like when they were kids, as well as, like, what are they doing now? Um, how, what, you know, what did their path look like? Um, a lot of them are in geoscience, like, fields right now for professional work. Yeah. We also have corporate mentors who come in who are from organizations that support us to say, like, hey, you know, this is what, you know, your investment in these students looks like for them. And we want them to be able to ask you questions of what does your day to day look like? What does it mean to be a geoscientist? Like, what does that look like for you? Um, do you get to go places? We get folks who are asking like, oh, well, do you get to travel all over? And we have guest speakers who are like, yeah, I was paid to live in four different countries, you know, while I was working for Chevron or for, you know, Shell or whatever. And that person is. So, there's lots of different places where the mentors on academies can talk to students and say, you know, this was my story, this is what I do, um, in a day to day, this is what my job looks like, this is what it's like to be a geoscientist. And then on the 12th grade, we brought in a bunch of different speakers, um, to say like, what is, what does it look like if you are not, you know, in the industry? We had, um, some folks who did, like, um, environmental science policy that came in and talked with y'all. Um, we had folks that came in, And shared their stories where, you know, it may have been different than you and I, but someone else in that room may have had a similar life experience as them. I'm saying, like, this, geoscientists come in lots of different backgrounds, lots of different places, there are lots of different motivating factors as to why someone wants to get into geosciences or do, you know, work tangentially related. We have somebody who came, um, they're alumni that came in, um, on a different academy, and they're, like, have always known they want to be an artist. Always known they want to be an artist. Um, there are kids on this twelfth grade that, like, know they want to be an artist. And they say, yeah, that's great, I want to be an artist, but I did really like GeoForce and Geoscientist. So, when they went to college to do their art degree, got a minor in, um, environmental science, because they want to be the person who designs, um, you know, the displays at museums. They want to be the person who can communicate that information that they know about the geoscientists while still using, you know, their passion for and skills as an artist. So it's like how, how can you be, you know, tangentially related to geoscientists? Maybe a way that you haven't thought of, but someone else that we brought in may be able to say like, oh, this is, you know, what I do. This is a different option that you can do and still be, you know, related to the geoscience fields. [00:23:28] Diya Gaur: For sure. Yeah, I agree. Like, I mean, initially, I wanted to go into medicine, but really GeoForce taught me that there's so much more to geology than just rocks, like, you can go super far and you can put together disciplines like chemistry, biology, physics, like, just so many stuff together and just put it into geology and, you know, find something that interests you, so, I mean, geology's not just the study of rocks, and like, on the 12th grade academy, I remember that one of my friends was doing the drawing, and Research project where they had to like go to the coast, I believe, and they were making a brochure for one of the parks. I mean, I kind of like remember a little bit about it, but not too much, but I think it's really cool how you can just like involve so many different disciplines and like put it into one. So it's like, it's really cool. Amazing, like, perfect, love it. 5

What happens when a kid who finds geology “gross” ends up running a program that changes the lives of future earth scientists? Jasmine Gulick, the senior program coordinator for GeoForce, takes us on a whirlwind tour from eighth grade science fairs to field trips that shape careers. We talk about how GeoForce hooks students on geology, the unexpected journey to loving rocks and volcanoes, and why it’s not just about getting your hands dirty (but rather, about getting inspired to shape the future of our planet). Whether you're a future geologist or just someone who's still wondering what makes earth science so cool, this episode will make you rethink what rocks can really do.   Got a lava questions? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu —————— Transcript very rich patron would maybe hire someone to, you know, study whatever they wanted to study, and that's like, this is the modern version of that. Our patrons are now these big National Science Foundation or NASA grants, and you have to Have to ask your patrons for the money to keep researching. And universities themselves. Universities are the biggest funders of research. And that's a very special thing about the United States in general. There's a lot of really cool research being done all over the world and all over different institutions, but the U. S. specifically has a, our university system has a very big emphasis on research, and being a research institution is a really big deal. Uh, so It's a really cool part about our education system.  [00:56:43] Diya Gaur: And just like, to add on to that as well, like, I was actually researching this because I'm applying for college as well, right? So I was wondering, like, for geology majors specifically, how do they get to go on exchanges to these different institutions and continue, like, studying geology there as an undergraduate major? How exactly is the process? And yeah.  [00:57:04] Jasmine Gulick: Yeah, so they're different, just like any, um, major that you might be in. At any institution, there is study abroad opportunities, um, and some of those are major specific and some of them are generalized, uh, but certainly when it comes to UT, which is a rather large institution, there are several opportunities, uh, for our students to study abroad in different, uh, colleges that they have kind of a, an agreement with to study, specific things. Um, it's also something that is very, very common in the field of geoscience when it comes to what's called your post doc, your post doctoral research. So in the geosciences, if you want to do research, uh, you have to get a doctorate. You can get a master's, you can get a bachelor's and do stuff, you can get a master's and do stuff, but if you want to specifically do research, it's really, really common that you need a doctorate degree. So that final level, a PhD, um, of research and In the sciences, especially in the geosciences, you do get paid. So you don't ever have to pay to get your doctorate. Once you get to that level of graduate school, they pay you to get your doctoral degree. You usually actually get paid as part of one of those grants we were talking about. So written in those grants is money for the researchers to have students working on that project. Um, so when you become a PhD student, you are assigned a specific research project that you're going to be working on, um, as part of your doctoral research. So you'll, you'll get your doctorate, and then you seek out opportunities, uh, to continue doing research. These are, like I said, called postdocs, and those postdocs can take you all over the world. I know my dad, his first postdoc after he got his PhD was six months in Japan. Wow. So he went to Japan for six months, yeah, doing research with the Ring of Fire. Um, and there's a lot of opportunities like that. I know of researchers that went to Spain for nine months or Argentina, uh, or, you know, or other places in the United States. If you want to go experience what it's like living in the University of Alaska Fairbanks, then, you know, you can go up there. So, there's a lot of opportunities, uh, in, in the sciences in general, but especially in the geosciences.  [00:59:19] Diya Gaur: Yeah, that's actually super cool. Like, one of, like, my favorite GeoForce trips was definitely the 11th grade one, and that's when we learned about the Ring of Fire. So, to be able to go on the other side of the ocean and explore how different the mountains formations, like, the volcanic mountain formations are different, I think that would be super interesting as well. So you can kind of just see both sides of what you've already learned. Science  [00:59:42] Jasmine Gulick: is, like I said, it's super, super collaborative, and it's really internationally collaborative. There's people from three different continents that were on that Greenland expedition. So, wow. Yeah, it's very exciting.  [00:59:53] Diya Gaur: Yeah, that is so cool. Well, I don't think I have any more questions, but if you have any more questions for me, I can always answer them.  [01:00:01] Jasmine Gulick: Hmm, I think my final question for you, my final thing maybe to wrap this up on is I would love to hear from you about the thing that you are most excited about for your future you know, in the geosciences, and as you look to your college career and what comes after that, what's the thing you're most excited about? [01:00:22] Diya Gaur: Okay, so I would say travel is one of them, but I think also connecting to a community of like minded people, for example, the professors that you kind of meet along the way, I think that is something that can be very rewarding, especially because A lot of the professors in geology, they're really passionate about what they do. And I've also seen this in my researcher, like my research mentors as well. They just truly love what they do. And I think going into community of people like that is something that's really interests me. And, you know, it's just like that tight knit bond, which you have, and it's like a different level of connection. Like obviously there's professional connection, but you can also relate to those people on like. You know, a bit more of a closer scale. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but for me, I would consider myself to be an extrovert, a super social person. So I love to talk, like I could talk 24 7, and so for me to talk to other people about You know what interests me, and also if they have the same interests as me, I feel like I can get such good insights, information, and just like, conversations in general out of it, and there's just like, so much of things you can learn from other people within the geosciences, especially because it's so like, There's so many like different things that you can do with it from like Geobiology like environmental science. There's just so many different ways that you can take geology and Going back to what you said about the international scale I think one thing that would interest me so much is just being able to meet all of these different people from other countries and seeing how we come up with different solutions and Systems which are really innovating the technology which we have today and the ones that we are developing for the future as well. [01:02:10] Jasmine Gulick: So yeah. I'm so excited for you. I'm excited to see where your journey takes you. I hope to see you back as a counselor in a couple years and get to hear about all the experiences you have.  [01:02:22] Diya Gaur: Actually, one more question.  Becoming a GeoForce Counselor [01:02:24] Diya Gaur: So for the people who have graduated from GeoForce or are graduating from high school and want to get involved in GeoForce, what is the process of becoming a counselor, like, for all of these academies again? [01:02:36] Jasmine Gulick: Yeah, so we, uh, as long as you keep up with us, if you're subscribed to our newsletter, um, or part of our alumni listserv that we have, then you'll get all the information. But our staff applications, and this is for anyone. Um, regardless of, you know, any adult who is listening to this, who might be interested in working, whether that's as an instructor, if you're a geoscientist, an educational coach, if you're a schoolteacher, and you don't have to be a geology based schoolteacher of any kind, any schoolteacher, um, a trail driver, for those who are, uh, adults who are comfortable driving and, like, picking up the food and things like that, um, or a counselor, so those are our college students who come. Uh, who come back, and it's primarily GeoForce alum, but also any, uh, college student who's interested, um, can apply. Our application opens November 1st, it closes November 30th, and it will be hosted on our website, so you'll find the link. On November 1st, you can go, click on it, uh, make sure you have your resume ready, able to answer the short answer questions that are on there. We don't ask for a letter of interest or a cover letter, we just ask short answer questions and for the resume. Um, and then we select our staff in December and let y'all know who's been hired. Like I said, just like with our student application, our staff application can be quite competitive, um, but, It is something that I always encourage people to continue applying because even if they don't get in this year, maybe next year they'll have that little bit more experience, um, or they'll be just the right sort of like mix of people that they will get the opportunity then. We love bringing new people on to support our summer academies. We need quite a lot of staff in the summer, so. Super cool.  [01:04:23] Diya Gaur: You'll see me in that application maybe next year, so stay tuned for that.  [01:04:28] Jasmine Gulick: All you have to do is, as long as you are in college, you can apply. So your freshman year of college, November, you can apply to start, start working with us the summer after your freshman year. [01:04:38] Diya Gaur: Hmm, okay, I see. I'll keep that in mind. Okay.  Final Thoughts and Farewell [01:04:44] Diya Gaur: Do you have any more questions for me, Jasmine?  [01:04:46] Jasmine Gulick: No, thank you so much for this opportunity to talk with you and talk about the program and everything else that we we chatted about.  [01:04:54] Diya Gaur: No, thank you so much for like being on the podcast, like this is really so insightful for me and also just like the other people who listen to the podcast as well. So I'm really grateful that you were able to come on and you were willing to share your experiences with GeoForce as well. So thank you so much.  [01:05:11] Jasmine Gulick: Absolutely, and good luck with all of your future episodes and everything that you have going on. I'm really rooting for you, for your future.  [01:05:20] Diya Gaur: Oh, thank you so much! So this is Dia and Jasmine on The Art of Subduction, out.

Here we have a chat with Jasmine Gulick, a coordinator of the GeoFORCE 9th grade academy. What is GeoFORCE? Why should you be interested in geology? — All the burning questions to get you introduced into geology, answered! Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions? Email me at dgaur@utexas.edu —————— Transcript Introduction to the Art of Subduction [00:00:00] Diya Gaur: Okay, welcome everyone to the Art of Subduction. This is episode three and we're with Jasmine. from UT Austin, and she is a coordinator for the Jackson School of Geosciences GeoForce program. So Jasmine, if you would like to introduce yourself.  Jasmine's Journey into Geology [00:00:42] Diya Gaur: Hi everyone,  [00:00:43] Jasmine Gulick: my name is Jasmine Gulick. I am the senior program coordinator for GeoForce, which means that I am currently the Longest standing and most experienced coordinator on staff with GeoForce. Um, I never intended to get into, uh, the field of geology. A fun fact about me is that my dad is a marine geophysicist, and when I was growing up in the way that geophysics was, Kids often are. I was like, I think geology's terrible and weird and gross because my dad did it. So obviously I wanted nothing to do with it. And then after college, I, uh, as I was sort of like looking for jobs, I was looking for coordinator jobs specifically because I've always really enjoyed logistical planning, um, and things of that nature. And I've always worked in education and, uh, summer camps. So, when I saw GeoForce, I was like, oh, this is amazing, this gets to combine my, you know, love of education, but also my love of science in general, and, and, you know, that outdoorsy nature of, of the program. Uh, so I applied, and I, I got the job as a coordinator, uh, almost six years ago now, so, uh, it's been pretty exciting. Actually, over six years ago now. Wow. Yeah, so it's been a really fun journey. I've had so much, so many amazing memories and experiences with this program, so I'm really happy to be here to talk about it. [00:02:06] Diya Gaur: Yeah, I mean, I'm really glad about your experiences as well.  Impact of GeoForce on Students [00:02:09] Diya Gaur: So I met Jasmine in eighth grade. She came to my middle school and basically gave me a presentation about what GeoForce was. And that's initially how I got involved in the program. And I think she's like the first person I really met from GeoForce. Um, I still remember the like presentation and the slides, which we were presented and that was in my science class during the pandemic. So even though it was virtual, I was like, Yeah, I like this program, I'm gonna stick with it, and I'm gonna see how it goes, and I think, like, GeoForce made such a big decision in what I want to do now, in, like, pursuing geology as an undergraduate major. [00:02:43] Jasmine Gulick: Always so wonderful to hear, and stories like that are absolutely why we do this program. Like, the reason I'm still here six years later is because of students like you, and the ones that really, you know, this is, uh, an experience that is so special because people don't get a lot of earth science education in school, there's like a little bit in middle school, and then the only earth science in high school is if you take it as an elective, and not every school even offers that, uh, so we find GeoForce to be so, so special and important because The geosciences are such an important field, um, and such a big field that really touches every aspect of our future, whether it's in industry or science exploration, space or the ocean or whatever it might be, right? So I love to hear the stories of all the students who've been touched by this program.  [00:03:30] Diya Gaur: And like, also just like, I know GeoForce is mainly just for Texas, but I just think that one reason why I was inspired to start my podcast as well is because we don't have programs like GeoForce open to everyone. It's more of like a niche Texas type of thing, which is really open for Texas students. And I feel like if it weren't because of GeoForce, I really wouldn't be going into geology now just because I didn't know about it. But I think the exposure that I got from GeoForce is really like what's needed in other students as well. So I think even through my podcast, that's what I hope to achieve to help students. More specifically, high schoolers going to geology and learn more about it. Love  [00:04:08] Jasmine Gulick: that. I love to hear that.  [00:04:11] Diya Gaur: Yeah. So, I mean, quick question.  Recruitment and Selection Process [00:04:13] Diya Gaur: When GeoForce, or people who are interested in GeoForce, when they learn about it in eighth grade, what usually are you looking for in those individuals? Great question. So, um,  [00:04:25] Jasmine Gulick: we are specifically, when, so when we go to recruit at schools, that's not really the start of our selection process. That's our sort of. Hmm, how do I re say this? That's the start of our selection process in the sense that that's how we find the students who are interested, right? We go and we recruit in front of, whether it's a single science class or an auditorium full of several hundred students, we sort of have a mix of all of that in our recruitment season, and we will often catch like one or two kids in those presentations that Something about that, that presentation, something about how we describe our program, um, catches their interest, and some of them aren't even interested in science at all at that point. Some of them are, a lot of them aren't, some of them aren't, but something about it catches their interest enough that they apply. What we're looking at in the applications is a genuine desire to explore. Uh, so we really, we ask a lot of questions in our applications about, um, whether, like, what, what do the students think they're gonna get out of GeoForce, um, and what is their already set interest in the sciences in general, because, uh, geology can really mix with all of the different scientific paths and fields, and we're, we're interested in in catching the students who are open to exploring a field that they wouldn't have thought of beforehand. [00:05:46] Diya Gaur: Yeah, like, absolutely. I totally agree with that statement as well. Like, I think in the same way, that's kind of what got me interested in what I want to do now. Like, I want to do research in geobiology, and it's just like mixing those different disciplines together. And I think that's super cool as well, because like, Even if you haven't thought about geology, but you know you're interested in some type of science, there's always, like, some type of way to incorporate it with geology, and that's what I think is, like, it's such a versatile feel, like, you can just do so much with geology in general. You really, really can,  [00:06:17] Jasmine Gulick: and it's, that's why it's so special, and that's why, even though I grew up thinking I hated geology, right, because I wanted nothing to do with it, my dad did, I've now come around to being, like, the biggest geology fangirl, so. Yeah,  [00:06:30] Diya Gaur: that's so true. Actually, when we were on our 12th grade trip, um, Mr. Jamie Austin, he made us do a speech in front of everyone else. And I remember one of his questions being, how did you get into GeoForce? And, you know, why did you decide to do GeoForce in general? And everyone was like, either like, yeah, I kind of did it because my mom told me to, but then at the end of the day, like you see, they've been here through like since eighth grade, and they're still doing it. And then And even if their parents made them do it, it was like, a good decision for them and they ended up having a really nice and happy outcome from it. So yeah. I mean, I think that was kind of funny as well, like how we can go from, you know, not really knowing about something, not really liking, for example, geology, and with your dad as well. How we can go from like, not really liking it, to like, loving it.  [00:07:17] Jasmine Gulick: Yeah. As long as you're open to the possibility, like, that's the number one most important thing in all, for everything in your life, as long as you're open to the possibility of, um, exploring something.  [00:07:29] Diya Gaur: Yeah, for sure. I mean, how, how did you initially, like, make that transition from not really liking geology to getting further into it and, you know, finding it super interesting? It really was  Field Experiences and Favorite Mountains [00:07:41] Jasmine Gulick: that first, I mean, so, you know, I've always liked science, um, and I've certainly Dabbled, like, around, uh, the fields, like, the larger earth science fields, astronomy and things like that, uh, but it wasn't until that first summer that I was a GeoForce coordinator, and I was there, standing in the back as the coordinators do, you know, handling all of the food logistics and everything, but listening to the instructor. Uh, give their, their talks, and specifically I remember it was my first 11th grade academy, which our 11th grade academy takes students out to, um, Oregon and Washington State, and talks about volcanics and things like that, and so as I was sitting there in the back of the group, You know, figuring out dinner that night, I was listening to the instructor, uh, give this, like, really passionate talk about Mount St. Helens, and I just, that will always stick with me, as I was like, oh my gosh, this is actually really cool, and I want to know more, and now I feel like I could give that talk six years later, I feel like I could, I could instruct that academy, because I just got so excited and interested. To learn more about it, so. [00:08:49] Diya Gaur: Right. On the topic of Mt. St. Helens, what would you say your favorite mountain is? Oh my gosh, that's a really  [00:08:56] Jasmine Gulick: good question.  [00:08:56] Diya Gaur: What  [00:08:56] Jasmine Gulick: is my favorite mountain? Um, I think Mt. St. Helens is special for that experience, but I think my favorite is Mt. Hood. Mount Hood is the mountain that we go up with our students, actually to, not quite the top, but up the mountain, and we have a snowball fight. Um, but just being on top of that mountain and kind of seeing the, the view of Oregon, um, from that great height is, I think, a really special experience that has stuck with me, uh, ever since the first time I did it, so. Probably Mount Hood. What's your favorite mountain?  [00:09:31] Diya Gaur: I like Mount Rainier a lot because they have the little meadows and if you go during the springtime, it's so beautiful and you'll see all of the different, like, mountain animals, like, just walking around. I think it's so cute. I love that. Yeah, and I actually drank glacier water from Mount Rainier. Oh my gosh, it was, like, perfect. The most crisp water I've ever tasted in my entire life.  [00:09:55] Jasmine Gulick: Absolutely. Yeah, no, that's a special experience for sure.  [00:09:58] Diya Gaur: It was so cool because, I mean, I accidentally left my water bottle in the car and what ended up happening is that we went to the highest panorama point on Mount Rainier. Like, I went and hiked with my mom there and We figured out, oh my gosh, we forgot to bring our extra bottle of water, but we're like, oh hey, there's like this fresh stream of water just flowing down the mountain, so why not just, you know, pick up some water in our little containers and just drink it. And it was actually really good. That's awesome.  [00:10:28] Jasmine Gulick: That's a special experience.  [00:10:29] Diya Gaur: Yeah. Yeah, I think it was like really, I don't know, it's kind of unique. Like, I don't, I would have never like expected myself to do that, but you know, it happened.  [00:10:39] Jasmine Gulick: You'll do all of that and more when you go on your geology field camp experiences, I'm sure.  [00:10:45] Diya Gaur: That's so true. I mean, actually, my researchers from my 12th grade academy, um, they were working on the ice sheets of Antarctica and Greenland, so I was, like, studying glaciers for a week, and so my mentor, Mr. Benjamin Kiesling, and also, uh, A couple other people who he was working with, they went to Greenland, and they did a bunch of studies there, and I think that's so interesting how they're showing the eyesheets there, so, I would love to do that in the future. Absolutely. There is definitely opportunities, so. Yeah, I think travel is also like one amazing thing that you can do with geology. It's all of the field experiments really and so you get to see all these different and beautiful geological formations and you know, I just love that aspect of it and I think many geologists can relate to that as  [00:11:34] Jasmine Gulick: well. It's definitely what brings a lot of people into the field is that travel component. Right. Which is why we do it on GeoForce as well. We're so, so big on wanting to keep our, our travel and keep our ability to take students out of state, because that's such a big part of geology as a field. And there is definitely, just like you were doing this last year with 12th grade, where you're, you're working, You know, in a, in a lab, in a computer, uh, you know, doing more of that, like, remote work of geology, there's that too. And I think the field is really trying to be more accessible to people in all, uh, walks of life who may or may not have the ability or the desire to go out, uh, and, and study and do those long, long hikes, but it is still such a core element of, of geoscience to have that. adventure. It's one of the, I feel like, the fields of science that still has the most adventure. [00:12:28] Diya Gaur: Right. Yeah, like, for sure. I think, I mean, also along that entire one week of 12th grade, I learned how to code in Python, and I think that was so interesting and cool because by the end of it, I was able to code, like, a map of Antarctica, like, make specific, um, things about it in there, and put it on my research presentation, like, which we did at the symposium, and You know, that was actually really fun. I never thought I would be able to code in Python because it's so difficult, but I think through GeoForce, with the help of all the research mentors and my friends as well, it was just super rewarding and like really fun to experience with other people. So yeah. I, I'm so glad you had such a  [00:13:10] Jasmine Gulick: good experience with it. Those are the things that we try to do. Building the confidence of our students to, to be like, yes, I can do this thing. I can go into this field. That is a big part of our program.  [00:13:23] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and also, I mean, just like, all of the connections that you make, so I mean, over the course of, like, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade, I just remember meeting all of these different researchers and, you know, talking to them about their work. So for example, I remember during the 10th grade academy, we had Miss Stephanie Suarez come and speak to us about, like, what she does, and one thing that I was so fascinated by is the fact that she had moon rocks with her, and we could actually touch those. It was, like Wow, that is wild. And I was like, now I can finally say I've actually touched the moon before, so I think that was super fun. And then also we had a couple of people from Exxon and Shell during the 12th grade academy, and I think it was really rewarding to connect with them as well, because you kind of get a glimpse into what being in the industry is like as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So any advice to the people who are applying for GeoForce this year? Application Advice and Changes in GeoForce [00:14:24] Diya Gaur: Like, what is the process of applying, like, per se, and what exactly is involved in the application?  [00:14:30] Jasmine Gulick: Yeah, so our, um, as you mentioned earlier, our program is really meant for students from Texas. We have accepted students from out of state before, especially if they're, uh, able to and willing to get to. Our, um, sort of starting locations, which are usually in either Uvalde, Austin, or Houston, but for the most part, our program is, is for Texas students. Uh, there is, since this podcast is going to everyone, um, if you live in Alaska, there is actually a GeoForce Alaska as well. Um, them, they mostly work with, uh, students from the tribes at, above the Arctic Circle. Uh, but if you, if you do live in Alaska, I would check that out. They have their own, um, program and funding up there. They're kind of our sister program out of the University of Alaska Fairbanks. But when it comes to our GeoForce Texas program, the flagship of the GeoForce program, we are gonna start our recruiting season and our application for new students opens on October 1st. Uh, this application will then go all the way till the end of January. So, it's a quite a large application window. We really encourage our students to take their time, uh, with, uh, their application and make sure it's everything that they want to say. We primarily are recruiting current 8th grade students. So, those who are in 8th grade right now, we're recruiting you to start that summer before 9th grade. But we do accept students at all stages, so if you are already a 9th grader, already a 10th grader, already an 11th grader, you can still apply. And if there's a spot in the cohort, you might be able to get pulled in at that later level. But for the most part, what we're looking for are those 8th graders. And our coordinators will go to the schools in Houston, Austin, and the Southwest Texas region in kind of San Antonio and around Uvalde, all the way down to the border. In that general vicinity, um, and, uh, talk to the students about the program, um, but you can apply regardless of what school you're in, even if your school wasn't one of the ones chosen, uh, for a recruitment session. The application itself is pretty simple. You have to give us information about yourself, and then you'll have to answer a series of short answer questions. Uh, so these Questions are things like, how do you think GeoForce will impact you, um, what is your, like I said, what is your interest in, uh, science, especially the geosciences, um, and we ask you about, sort of, your involvement in school, what clubs are you in, uh, organizations like that, um, things, things along that line. Uh, what we're looking for in those applications. It's kind of hard to describe. We do have a rubric. Uh, we don't post that rubric publicly because we don't want students just to, like, write to the rubric. We want to get their genuine answers, and we do have a, uh, meeting, so everyone will, will blind all the applications, all of the coordinators will give the scores that they think based on the rubric, and then when we unblind the applications and we look at people's specific circumstances, uh, we do have a, a little bit of wiggle room for those students. Students that maybe didn't answer the strongest in some of the questions, but have some sort of circumstance that we're like, this student could really benefit from the program and could really, uh, shine in our program. So, so it's, it's sometimes hard. It's a very long, it's a full day meeting when we select our students. It really, it really does take all day. There's a lot that goes into that decision.  [00:18:02] Diya Gaur: Yeah, I can imagine, because like, I mean, it's such an amazing program, I can definitely believe that you guys get a lot of applicants to it as well. Sure do. So it must be very competitive. It sure is. But it's a really great program. Yeah.  [00:18:15] Jasmine Gulick: Yeah. I would highly  [00:18:16] Diya Gaur: recommend everyone to apply to TO4s. I think it's really life changing, actually. You mentioned Mount Hood earlier, and like, I really thought back to my snowball fight with, um, like, Mitchell and all of the people who are in the Houston cohort. I remember making, um, a snowman of Mitchell with his glasses on it. I'm not sure if you saw that photo, but that was super fun. Yeah. That's so fun. And also, like, we had the campfire thing, and that was also super nice as well. I applied to GeoForce with my friends, like, from middle school, and I'm, we're still going strong, so, I mean, I think that was really nice as well, so, yeah. Love that. So, also, hypothetically, if you were an 8th grade student right now, and you were applying to GeoForce, what would you write about?  [00:19:05] Jasmine Gulick: So, there's two ways to answer this question, right? If I were myself, in all of my experience and like, what I know now, but like, somehow an 8th grader, what I would write would really be talking about like, my passion for the geosciences and how fascinating it is, and how like, I could definitely see myself wanting to do research in some sort of field of geosciences. Uh, you know, planetary geology or something like that. I would talk about that and I would talk about how much I love to travel and how much I love learning and, and how excited I am to, like, form bonds with a cohort. That's what I would say now. If I were an 8th grader, like, if it was me, but how I was in 8th grade and I somehow was, like, my dad was like, you have to apply to this program, GeoForce, or something like that. Um, I, I don't know how, how good my answers would have been, uh, which is a sad thing looking back, but I, I think we all come upon our own journeys, uh, in our own paces, right? So we can't, we can't force the, the students who aren't interested to be part of it, especially because as you say, we have so many applicants, so in the end where we're looking for the kids that already know that this is something they're interested in, uh, we do get a lot of applicants. Students whose parents forced them to apply and that we can usually tell. So, um, you know, it, it's a mixed bag of what ends up happening in that kind of situation. Sometimes even if they're being forced to apply, they still genuinely jump in feet first, ready to, to hit the ground running. Uh, and other times it's very clear that it's not the experience for them. Uh, and that's fine because in the end of the day, we all have, have different paths in life, right. I don't think I, I think I would have loved GeoForce if I actually got in, but I don't think I would have applied or done well in the application as an 8th grader. If that makes sense.  [00:20:56] Diya Gaur: No, that makes sense. I mean, I can see why. I mean, like, you know, also our writing skills aren't so developed as well. Like, when I sometimes go back to my GeoForce essay, which I wrote, like, four years ago, and I'm like, hmm, I can't believe, like, I actually wrote like this, and now you kind of see how much you've improved, like, both as a writer and just, like, in the content of what you wrote then. So, I mean, I think it's, like, kind of different, but  [00:21:21] Jasmine Gulick: Was your essay the one about the earthquake? I don't remember, Wade.  [00:21:26] Diya Gaur: I could actually tag afterwards, but maybe. I don't remember.  [00:21:30] Jasmine Gulick: I might remember your essay. This was back when our application was an essay that students had to write, which is different from now. Now it's just short answers, which we think gets more to the heart of what our students need. you know, want to tell us.  [00:21:42] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and I also remember that when I was doing the essay it was actually super fun to write because I did a bit of research as well and I think that was pretty rewarding,  [00:21:52] Jasmine Gulick: really. I'm so glad you had that experience. We definitely thought that the essay probably intimidated a lot of people away, um, so we ended up cutting it as a component but I kind of miss it. I really liked reading everyone's essays.  [00:22:06] Diya Gaur: Yeah, so I'm actually looking at my essay right now. I was talking about sustainable energy. Yeah, sustainable energy and glaciers. Yeah, that was mine. What a full circle moment, right? Yeah, I went from talking about glaciers in my ninth grade essay to actually doing research on them. That is like actually so cool. That is very  [00:22:28] Jasmine Gulick: very  [00:22:29] Diya Gaur: cool. We did a full, like, you know, 360. Yeah,  [00:22:33] Jasmine Gulick: you did. Full circle.  [00:22:35] Diya Gaur: Yep. But I mean, I think that was really nice as well. I mean, in terms of like activities wise, has anything particularly changed in the 9th and 10th grade academies? Like, I remember we would have the lecture and then we would do an activity. What is it like now?  [00:22:52] Jasmine Gulick: Yes, so, in general, our program is always innovating. We're always talking about ways that we can improve and ways we can keep it updated, and also, in general, students are changing. Our program started in 2005. The students that existed in 2005 and the students that are around today are different people. They have different sort of expectations of their learning, and they come from very different places societally, uh, so we can't keep the exact same thing that we did in 2005. in 2005 to what we do now. Um, and we also grow and update and, and discover new things and find better experiences or safer experiences or whatever it might be as the program continues on. So, uh, we actually just had our big meeting, uh, last week about what updates we're going to do for this next summer. Uh, but it's a big thing we do every, every fall or at the end of summer to talk about what are the What are the things we're going to change, um, how are we going to innovate? One of the big changes that happened, I think it would have been right around your 9th grade year, either at your 9th, no, it would have been probably between your 9th and 10th grade. We did away with quizzes and tests. So we used to do, uh, quizzes and tests with, uh, every single day, pretty much, we did a quiz. And then at the end of your GeoForce week, you had to pass a test in order to come back. And that was how we originally assessed how students were engaged. Um, but we discovered that, you know, not everyone does well with quizzes and tests. It's not always a great, uh, way to assess, uh, students actual engagement or learning. That's something schools are also realizing. There's less and less. Quizzes and tests in schools than there used to be when, for instance, I was growing up. Um, so now we have different types of assessments. We have more sketches, more group projects, or individual projects, more ways for students to do, like with the 12th grade, uh, actual research type, uh, things. And that's a lot better and is working more well for our current student population than what we, we used to do with quizzes and tests. But in terms of changes to the stops. The 9th grade academy has changed significantly. So, I'm gonna make, I'm gonna make you really upset, uh, and other people perhaps really upset, but the 9th grade actually used to go to Florida. [00:25:10] Diya Gaur: What? Wow. Yeah, we don't do  [00:25:12] Jasmine Gulick: that anymore. Uh, that, that was cut some, mmm, 8 years ago, we switched to Texas. Oh my gosh. Um, because while Florida is a lovely, lovely place to go, there's some really great beaches on Texas. So, we used to do this coastal geology program in Florida, and then we switched to Texas, and we did a coastal geology program in Texas, and then much more recently, we changed the structure of the ninth grade to not be entirely focused on coastal geology, but to be more focused on, like, the sediment. How do sediments move from Sort of mountains, down rivers, the agents of transportation, and eventually make their way to the coast, uh, and using that as a model sort of for Geology 101 versus, um, purely being focused on beaches. So, and we are making some big, big changes this year for the 9th grade as well, uh, again, on that same type of vein. Like, how do we, how do we make the 9th grade experience a really good starting point for our students that they can leap off into that 10th grade? And 11th grade. The 10th grade experience hasn't changed. Neither 10th or 11th have changed significantly since they were invented. Uh, the 10th grade has always gone to Arizona and Utah and always been about reading the rock record. We'll switch out a stop here and there. We just added Bryce Canyon last year. It was our first year adding Bryce Canyon. Um, and so that's been a really great experience, uh, and the students have really liked that. And then the 11th grade Oregon and Washington State has been the same since the very first 11th grade in 2007, um, and, uh, that one also we've only, we try out things like we tried out Mount Rainier, um, we've tried out, uh, different, uh, sort of areas like the Hatfield Marine Science Center, Um, different activities, but for the most part those have not changed very much, just little little changes. It's our 9th and our 12th that have had the most significant changes as we, like, try to come up with better ways to start the program and to cap off the program.  [00:27:10] Diya Gaur: Right, it's always like that basis of knowledge that we always need to know, like, you know, it's really fundamental to have the basics of geology down because that's really, like, how you can build up your knowledge from there as well. I mean, I do remember, like, also in the virtual sessions that we had in ninth grade, because that was the pandemic year, I think it was 2021 for us, and we actually did quite a bit of, you know, figuring out how sediments, like, move through, like, rivers and just learning about the different, like, stuff that we can find in the coast. I think it would be really cool to have gone to the coast, but I think that was, like, also super Interesting to learn about as well, even though it was virtually. So, yeah. So, you also did mention, like, inclusivity, like, just making geology a bit more inclusive for everyone and their different learning types. I mean, how can we apply that, possibly, to the field of geology and, you know, make it more inclusive in terms of different learning styles, working styles, um, society, and so on?  [00:28:10] Jasmine Gulick: That's a great question. So it's, it's a big, big conversation in the geosciences right now, because traditionally all geology majors, um, pretty much across the United States have a required field camp. So, the students will do all of their geology classes in normal school type setting, and of course there's a general conversation educationally about the inclusivity and the, uh, adapt or accessibility of things like tests. Uh, and how we can do projects and things and other types of assessments, but one of the big barriers to entry with the geosciences was A, the calculus requirements, um, and whether or not that kind of hard math is really necessary in the geosciences, I'll come back to that, but B, it was this required field camp, so all geology, Uh, majors pretty much universally are required to do field camp, and field camp, traditionally, has always been like a six week expedition to Montana, or Wyoming, or somewhere like that. Challenges in Geoscience Education [00:29:09] Jasmine Gulick: Um, it's a very physically demanding, uh, summer course, basically. Um, and that itself has forced a lot of people who are maybe not physically able to do that kind of work. to not be geology majors, which is a really big shame because there are huge swaths of the geosciences that you can do and have to do from labs or from, uh, your computer. The whole field of planetary geology at this point is pretty much entirely, uh, based on lab and satellite work, and there's very, very few geologists that get to actually go up in space, right? Um, so, yeah. I think it is, it's a disservice and it's something that the, the geoscience community is trying really, really hard to fix, uh, and to offer more, uh, alternatives to field camps that are maybe based on, uh, more, um, accessible environments, uh, or offering ways that students who maybe Uh, might be in a wheelchair, be able to actually go out and field camp, but have kind of an adapted way of doing research or looking at the data, um, and things like that is a, is a big question, and it's something we with GeoForce have talked about a long, long time, because we also have these very physically demanding trips, and how do we make sure that our trips are accessible? Adapting to Virtual Learning [00:30:28] Jasmine Gulick: Um, and that was one of the silver linings for us with the pandemic. In 2020, uh, when, you know, the world went on lockdown in March 2020, the GeoForce program, uh, we had been all set up and ready and gotten everything prepared for a normal GeoForce summer, and we literally had about six So we spent six ish weeks to completely re adapt our program to a virtual environment, which was quite a challenge. We had a lot of help. We had help by Dr. Kathy Ellens, who's a geoscience education researcher, and Dr. Dana Thomas, and we Completely took all of our in person programs and made them virtual, um, and we did that for two summers. So 2020 and 2021, all of our programming was virtual because of the pandemic. And once we were able to go back in person, of course, we, we love the in person experience. We think it's so special. We think it's so much more effective on the whole.  Inclusivity in Geoscience [00:31:22] Jasmine Gulick: For students to be able to have that in person experience, but we did see a lot of value in that virtual environment, and so now we've been able to adapt our virtual programming that we had to create to make a permanent virtual academy so that we can have at least a little bit of that accessibility for the students who want it or need it. This year, our students in the Virtual Academy actually also got to learn how to code in Python. They had a very different project than the Benjamin Kiesling group from 12th grade. Y'all were looking at, you know, I sheet modeling, and this other group was had a more general project, um, because it was a combination of two different 9th through 12th graders who did the virtual academy. But I think it's so important and special to show students that they have opportunities regardless of physical ability or things like we've seen with the pandemic. There's a lot of people who are immunocompromised who have discovered that they really can't be out and about with everyone as much. And so having these virtual environments is really, really important for them to still be able to experience all of these special things. So.  [00:32:29] Diya Gaur: Right. That  [00:32:29] Jasmine Gulick: was a long winded answer.  The Importance of Geoscience [00:32:31] Diya Gaur: No, that was a really good answer, and honestly speaking, I have not thought about that before, so that, like, I mean, that's definitely a new perspective for me, and, like, I'm actually glad that you mentioned that as well, because, you know, geology itself is not a very, Or it's not a relatively well known field, like, you know, I will mention geology to people who are like maybe twice or thrice my age, and they're like, Oh, what's geology? I've never heard of that. And so, I mean, I think also just like making it more inclusive to learn about geology as well is super important, like, Even if you're not intending to pursue geology actively, it's always good to know that, you know, there is this field which gives you all of the general knowledge that you need to know about the Earth. And I think, also, in the time and age we're living in today, it's more imperative than ever to know how exactly Earth works. It's a super, I mean, it's not super new, but it's super important. It's still a new and emerging field as well, so there's like a lot of developments to be made and also improvements to be made to the field overall. Thank you for that point, that was really good actually.  [00:33:36] Jasmine Gulick: I'm glad. I'm glad. It is super, super important. And the geosciences, like I said, is such a, such an important field. It's, you know, how we're going to look into the energy crisis and climate change, how we're going to look into critical minerals and studying things in space and, like, in our oceans. And there's so much in the geosciences, and it's so, so important for it to be accessible, uh, to anyone who wants to learn about it. And as you mentioned, one of the things that I love about GeoForce is that even though Um, not all of our students go into the geosciences. Every student comes out of GeoForce understanding the geosciences and is able to educate their communities and the people that they interact with about it. Because as you say, it's a really mystifying field for reasons that are mystifying to me. Why is it that we don't teach, uh, about the geosciences, earth science, geology, all of that, you know, to everyone?  [00:34:28] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and Frankly speaking, like, the only thing I really learned in class or in school about geology was, like, you know, the different layers of the earth, like, I just remember doing a project on that, and that was kind of it, like, we never really went more in depth about, like, the actual processes, like, occur on earth and why it's so important to know with the glaciers, like, climate change, all that stuff that's occurring. It's like, we really need to educate the future generations how to, you know, save the earth and just, you know, make sure that we can keep on advancing our sustainable energies and Make a difference in climate change as well. Absolutely.